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George Richardson

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date
Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 23 Nov 2020 23:16

Hi, sorry to disappear. Rosa (Rose, Rosina) and Hannah Richardson appear together on the 1871 census. They are domestic servants in the household of Henry Williams, Goldbeater. London, St Pancras, Camden Town. I'm assuming they are sisters. Rose Richardson then appears on the 1881 census as the wife/partner of the same Henry Williams. I will look back tomorrow, thanks for all your work, a couple of interesting things brought up here.

greyghost

greyghost Report 24 Nov 2020 10:13

The 1871 census you refer to - original shows both girls born St Pancras

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Kings Road, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Williams Head - Male 42 1829 - Devon, England
Mary Williams Wife - Female 46 1825 - Yorkshire, England
Charles Williams Son - Male 16 1855 - Middlesex, England
Arthur Williams Son - Male 13 1858 - Middlesex, England
Rosa Richardson Servant - Female 17 1854 - Middlesex, England
Hannah Richardson Servant - Female 15 1856 - Middlesex, England

WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 24 Nov 2020 11:00

Rosa (Rose)'s birthplace is listed as: 1871 St Pancras. 1881 Middlesex. 1891 St Lukes. 1901 - St Pancras. 1911 District NK (North Kensington?) She is my GG Grandmother. I've removed George from my tree. I'm still assuming Hannah is her sister though it could be a coincidence that they are both working/living in the same place.
Rose's name is variously recorded as Rosa, Rose, Rosina and Rosetta.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 24 Nov 2020 11:18

Possible 1861...probably posted before, but worth repeating

Name: Hannah Richardson
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Richardson
Mother's Name: Caroline Richardson
Gender: Female
Where born: St Pancras
[St Pancras, Middlesex]
Civil Parish: Bloomsbury St George
Town: London
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration District: St Giles
Sub-registration District: St George Bloomsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 15
Piece: 165
Folio: 32
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Richardson 40
Caroline Richardson 41
Margaret Richardson 17
Thomas Richardson 14
Am Richardson 12
Rosena Richardson 9
Hannah Richardson 5


Did Rosa ever marry?

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Nov 2020 11:29

Ah, so maybe George isn't the father after all!
And the nurse child Rosa in 1861 obviously isn't your Rose/Rosena, if the one with sister Hannah is yours.

The children in the 1861 posted by ErikaH:


RICHARDSON, MARGARET ANN LANGSTONE mms LANGSTONE
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in ETON UNION BUCKS Volume 06 Page 361

RICHARDSON, THOMAS mms LANGSTONE
GRO Reference: 1847 M Quarter in HENDON Volume 03 Page 225

RICHARDSON, ANN mms LANGSTONE
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in HENDON Volume 03 Page 249

RICHARDSON, HANNAH mms LANGSTONE
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in SAINT PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 63

Can't see Rosa's (or name variation) birth.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Nov 2020 11:30

Rosina Anna Richardson
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Rosina Anna Richardson
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 12 Nov 1852
Baptism Place: St Marylebone Christ Church, Westminster, England
Father: Thomas Richardson
Mother: Caroline Richardson
Register Type: Parish Registers


The illegitimate birth already posted is still the only likely one I can see.
Can't see one witih mms Langstone or similar.
(Assuming Thomas and Caroline are her parents.)

Marriages Sep 1843 (>99%)
LANGSTONE Caroline Uxbridge 3 341
RICHARDSON Thomas Uxbridge 3 341

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Nov 2020 12:01

The 1881 you mention:

Risina Williams
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Risina Williams
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Henry Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 1 Southampton Ter
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors:
Piece: 232
Folio: 58
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Williams 50
Risina Williams 30
Henry Williams 6
Annie Williams 2

I can't see any marriage for them.


WILLIAMS, ANNIE ROSETTA mms RICHARDSON
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 277


WILLIAMS, HENRY THOMAS mms RICHARDSON
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 302

WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 24 Nov 2020 12:05

That looks like it could be the family ! No marriage to found I don't think. Rose and Hannah were domestic servants in the household of Henry Williams (1871 census) In 1881 Rose was using his surname and he had another family with her....

WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 24 Nov 2020 12:06

I'll scrap the 'nurse child' record, I think this is probably correct. Great work, thank you !

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 24 Nov 2020 12:15

Unfortunately, if, as it seems, Rosa din't marry, you may never know who her father was

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 24 Nov 2020 13:03

Surely, 'N K' on 1911 means 'Not known'

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Nov 2020 13:56

And IF she is the daughter of Thomas and Caroline, it's strange there's apparently no birth record for her.

Or IF she's the illegitimate birth, why did Thomas & Caroline bring her up as their daughter?
If it were my search, I would be tempted to buy the birth cert to see who her mother was.

WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 24 Nov 2020 13:56

Ah, okay. Ta.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Nov 2020 14:04

Re "NK" in 1911, I agree with Erika that it's "not known"..

Info on censuses depends on what the informant knew, or thought they knew.

Frederick Siggs on the same record also has NK for his birthplace, though he was born in Fulham:

SIGGS, FREDERICK JOSEPH mms HOBBS
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 264


WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 24 Nov 2020 21:46

I believe I have found a record of her baptism. Christchurch, Marylebone. Rosina Anna Richardson, Nov '52. Parents Thomas and Caroline. On the 1861 census I think her birth place says Marylebone. Poor writing. Hannah's appears to be St Pancras. On the 1871 census they both state St Pancras. I'm convinced it's the person I'm looking for.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 25 Nov 2020 09:09

That baptism was posted on here by ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 25 Nov 2020 09:52

But there's no BIRTH record unless the illegitimate one is her.


Maybe she was the daughter of some relative of Thomas, and he and Caroline agreed to bring her up, so had her baptised as their own child.
But that's only an unfounded guess.
That's why I would buy the birth cert to see who the mother of the illegitimate child was - if it were my search.

Might turn out to be a completely unrelated child, of course - it's a gamble. Only you can decide if it's worth the cost.

WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 25 Nov 2020 10:43

What does mms ? What indicates an illegitimate child ? Sorry, I'm not familiar with these terms, I assume there is now a way of seeing the mother's surname pre 1911 ?

WhiffingSiggs

WhiffingSiggs Report 25 Nov 2020 10:48

The GRO ref for Rosa Richardson is 1953, the baptism for the child with Thos and Caroline Richardson is Nov 52 with birth given as Feb 52.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 25 Nov 2020 11:21

MMS is the Scottish version of MMN

Illegitimacy is indicated by the absence of that info on the GRO record

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp