Find Ancestors

I did ask this some years ago, and got some replies, unfortunately it was info i already had and didn't really cover the question. My thanksgo out to them ,but i don't need anything later (1841 to date) than what i am enquiring about

So hopefully there may be some 'new' people on here that may have more up to date knowledge

I have gone through the usual suspects ,Freereg,Ancestry,Mormons and cannot trace the baptism records of two people

Both are named John Vale and could be father and son, and i really need to establish that link.There are tenuous ones in the Censuses but nothing that is concrete

First is John Vale B1792 in Buttsbury Essex ( father possibly Peter and Jane)

Have found a marriage to a Mary Rumble in 1812 and her death in 1823, and his subsequent remarriage in 1827, which fuels my original suspicions on a previous issue in the first marriage

It is his baptism that i would like to link him with Peter and Jane ( nee Rush)

Second is his possible son John Vale b1817 in either Stifford or Stanford le hope (both places named on Census)

I would love to establish that John(1792 ) and Mary are his parents

If anyone can assist on these two eternally grateful Possibly someone with a sub the the Essex RO who has 10 mins or so
Or any other links i may have missed .

The availability of records on line is the deciding factor.

How did you work back to these people?

What proven info do you have which leads you to them?

It would have been better to add to your earlier thread, to avoid people using time looking for info which has already been provided

You could find the parish records on Family Search. You will need to have a free account to access them.
Most of their P/Rs start at 1800 to about 1860/70.

MR_MAGOO
Ron says he's already accessed that site - he refers to it as Mormons

Try this

https://www.essexrecordoffice.co.uk/research/

Otherwise, you will need to visit the Records Office. I don't think they offer a subscription service

But did he search the catalog ?

Not many people know what is in it.

Link to ERO on other thread.

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_chat/thread/1385450

is this the peter and jane one

Name: John Veal
Birth Date: 12 Dec 1791
Gender: Male
Event Type: Baptism
Father: Peter Veal
Mother: Jane
Baptism Date: 8 Jan 1792
Baptism Place: Billericay, Essex, England
Denomination: Independent
Piece Title: Piece 1499: Billericay (Independent), 1754, 1777-1837

Name: John Vale
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1828
Marriage Place: Saint Matthew,Bethnal Green,London,England
Spouse: Charlotte Bottom
FHL Film Number: 849421

brother
Name: James Veal
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 27 Jun 1801
Baptism Place: Buttsbury, St Mary, Essex, England
Father: Peter Veal
Mother: Jane Veal
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish

Name: Susanna Veal
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 11 Jan 1795
Baptism Place: Buttsbury, St Mary, Essex, England
Father: Peter Veal
Mother: Jane Veal
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish

Name: Peter Vale
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Marriage Date: 18 Feb 1788
Marriage Place: Buttsbury, Essex, England
Spouse: Jane Rush
FHL Film Number: 1471966

Name: Peter Vale
Death Age: 89
Birth Date: abt 1760
Death Date: abt 1849
Burial Date: 16 Dec 1849
Burial Place: Essex, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Stock, All Saints' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

Peter
Last name Vale
Baptism year 1759
County Essex
Country England
Place Canewdon
Mother's first name(s) -
Father's first name(s) -
Baptism date 19 Aug 1759
Archive
Essex Record Office
Archive reference D/P 219/1/1

Ron needs to give the link to his previous thread, to save wasting time and effort

ErikaH

No link reqd I did that once before and got people emailing me stuff i already knew and never asked for.

So i kept this to the minimum to save people the time and effort in doing a lot of duplicate and totally unnecessary research that i had already done

That is why i i kept it simple because i have hit a brick wall.

in asking if there were other places i could try.. as i wanted the baptismal record of a John Vale B1817 in either Stifford or Stanford le Hope to see if my GGGgranfather was his father..In fact one of the censuses says he was born in 1813!!
.
Maddie has come up trumps Well not quite a full house,and looks like she uses sites i have no idea of!! and muchos thanks that really helps me with stuff i didn't know.... Maddie. take an internet cuddle ( keeping to social distance lol)

As regards the Essex RO i dont really fancy shelling out 30.00 to find out there may not be a record of his baptism. and if there was someone nearby who regularly visits and can spare an hour or so checking, Who knows perhaps one of the transcribers on FreeReg may have missed it.! Also saves me driving 150 miles each way..

Thanks to all who responded may your searches always find fruit

Ron ...............

you are much more likely to get stuff that you DON"T want by not posting the link!

That's because we don't know what you have.

If you post the link, we can see what you have and didn't want.

Do you understand?????????

The whole point of asking you to link to your previous post is to AVOID duplication

People who are trying to help don’t want to waste their valuable time, either

Maddie didn’t identify her source, which would have been helpful, but it is Ancestry.
I actually found those records, but didn't post them as you were so specific about the birthplace of your ancestor

BTW, NO-ONE can visit RO’s at the moment They are CLOSED

Sylvia

Yes, i am having trouble getting to places as well! I need to measure some full size kit up to scale down to 1.062inches to the ft and then draw them out for laser cutting. Really is a bind, that is why i thought i would ressurect this .
I thought ( wrongly) that just by narrowing it down to a specific person and date it would assist.
I have seen too many people on my other hobby ask for XYZ and then get a massive diatribe back about ABC that is fsctuaslly correct, but the guys knows it already and it doesn't help with the question I really thaght that by giving a name/date and what was needed ( or where to go) it would help them rather than hinder!!
I appreciate peoples enthusiasm, but if they are unsure of what is required surely a simple quick question would put them on the right track ( no pun intended as i am building a Steam loco!!)
Perhaps it is just me asking too much!!

Hope everyone is keeping well

apologies Ron for not putting the source, these records can also be found on find my past

Maddie Thats ok I am still finding my way around all these sites!Perhaps i should use the 'sounds like' a bit more

It would be nice to get actual proof that J1817 parents were John/Mary but these are the coincidences i feel that it is well over 50% certain

J1817 Wedding Cert shows father as John
no record in 1841 census of J1817 however J1792 is a labourer in a gas works
J1817 later becomes a manager in a Gasworks 1871 census

J1792 2nd marriage to Charlotte show among other children there was a son Reuben (1831-1869) who had had a son Harry b 1863

Now the 1871 census shows J1817 having a son Harry b1863 the `1881 census shows Harry as a Nephew!!! If we use this John could be a half brother to Reuben tenuous i know but with the gasworks link thats all i am going on Also the areas in mentioned are pretty close
But as said earier J1817 baptism will be the clencher


I might have to bite the bullet and divert my loco funds to this!!

Thanks again for all your help.It really is appreciated

i know you have this just setting it out
HARRY REUBEN
Last name VALE
Birth year 1863
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Bull
District Islington

REUBEN
Last name VALE
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1854
Registration month

Rebecca Bull,

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Elizabeth Place, Saint Leonard Shoreditch, Shoreditch, London & Middlesex,
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Vale Head Married Male 59 1792 Labourer Essex, England
Charlotte Vale Wife Married Female 62 1789 - Shoreditch
Reuben Vale Son Unmarried Male 19 1832 Law Stationer England

Name: John Vale
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 8 Jul 1839
Marriage Place: St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney, Tower Hamlets, England
Father: John Vale ------ labourer
Spouse: Isabella Scutchings
Register Type: Parish Register

harry with john 1881
Name: Harry Vale
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relationship to Head: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Wimbledon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Haydens Road Gaswork Cottage

Name: John Vale ------ widower
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1828
Marriage Place: St Matthew, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, England
Spouse: Charlotte Bottom

can't find his previous marraige or bapt for john 1817

however it seems highly probable that john and reuben were half brothers

sorry cant be more help

Maddie, i did find these on Freereg


Mary Anne RUMBLE Baptism 06 Jun 1792 Essex Rivenhall : St Mary and All Saints : Unspecified

Mary RUMBLE
John VALE Marriage 12 Apr 1812 Essex Stifford : St Mary the Virgin and St Cedd :


Mary VALE Burial 15 Dec 1822 Essex Stifford : St Mary the Virgin and St Cedd : Unspecified


Looking at these IF a baptism record for John B1817 does exist, it is a very strong bet that it will be at that church!! But He does put a spanner in the works by quoting his birthplace at Stanford le hope!!!

I think that a detailed look at all the parish churches in that area will be needed after the lockdown ends

OH and the possible bad news is that i cannot add Mary to J1792 and the associated descendants,But the guys at support are going to have a look at it.
Itr will be a real swine if i have to rewrite every entry!!



Thanks to all

????

Record Transcription:
Essex Baptism Index 1538-1920

Record set Essex Baptism Index 1538-1920
First name(s) Jane
Last name Vale
Baptism year 1820
County Essex
Country England
Place Stifford
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Vale
Baptism date 06 Feb 1820
Father's occupation Labourer
Residence Stifford
Archive
Essex Record Office
Archive reference D/P 330/1/6
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain

when you can visit essex office check this out

as my gg grand father was registered as a female.
jane could sound like john with an essex accent ?

Why can't you add Mary to J1792?

I'm assuming you have the "associated descendants" attached to J1792 at present.

Click on J1792's entry on your tree.
Click "Add"
Click "Spouse".

If you already have Mary somewhere on your tree, click "Find Existing".
Start typing her name, then select her name from the drop-down list which will appear, and click "Save".

If she's not already on your tree, click "Add new", enter the details, and click "Save".

Next -
If she is the mother of any of J1792's children already on your tree, but not linked to that child/children, deal with one child at a time.
Click on the child's entry on your tree.
Look at the slide-out panel on the right of the screen.
Scroll down to "Relationships".

Presumably there's no mother attached to that child at present.
Click "Add mother".
Click "Find existing".
Start typing Mary's name, select from drop-down list, click "Save".

Alternatively, if you had previously entered "Unknown" or similar as the child's mother's name, at "Relationships" click "Change" beside the mother's name on the child's slide-out panel.
Then continue as above - "Find existing" etc.