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Im looking for Elsie Watkins and Ivy Watkins marriages. They are twins and it is believed that they both married Keeping(s) . I am researching for a close friend who is the a living relative. Ivy was her Grandmother-

Can you give us some idea of location and timescale, please?

???

Marriages Dec 1932 (>99%)
Keeping Alfred T Watkins Battersea 1d 731
Watkins Ivy Keeping Battersea 1d 731

???

1939 Register

21 St Alban's Grove, Carshalton U.D., Surrey, England

Eliza Keeping 16 Jul 1877 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 189 1
>>Alfred T Keeping 12 Jan 1910 Male Heavy Lorry Driver Beer Married 189 2
Edward C Keeping 20 May 1918 Male General Labourer Heavy Worker Single 189 3
Eliza E Keeping 11 Apr 1907 Female Counter Hand Post Office Single 189 4
Mary A T Potter (Keeping) 15 Sep 1919 Female Inspectress Of Armament Single 189 5



Could this be Ivy?


26 Kingston County Hospital Wolverton Avenue, Kingston-Upon-Thames M.B., Surrey, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Ivy Keeping 20 Mar 1910 Female Permanently Incapacitated Married 10 127

There are these births of twins - assuming Ivy and Elsie were born in London.
Maybe Elsie was a "pet" name??

Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
Watkins Alice R West Islington 1b 352
Watkins Ivy M West Islington 1b 352

Ivy's is the only Watkins/Keeping marriage I can see. on FreeBMD

ArgyllGran Yes thats the ones :) Thank you. and Elsie her sister is also beleived to have married Keeping too. I also need , if possible Death records for Ivy.
The sisters were born in Neath Port Talbot area, in South Wales.
Ihad a daugnter, out of wedlock, my friends Mother.
There is no father named on the birth certificate and also there is no
where I can find a D.O.D for Ivy although

If those are the right births I posted, then they weren't born in Wales.

The earliest birth of an Ivy Watkins in Neath is in 1922 - too young to be marrying in 1932.

Ivy may, however, have died in Neath:

Ivy Keeping
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ivy Keeping
Death Age: 28
Birth Date: abt 1912
Registration Date: Jan 1940
[Feb 1940]
[Mar 1940]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Neath
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 1737

You'd need to buy a copy of the cert to check the other details - names of father and/or husband, and exact DOD

Thank you.
I know my friend said she had died young.
do you see any siblings please?

With Alfred Thomas:

Ivy Keeping
in the Sutton, Surrey, England, Electoral Registers, 1931-1970
Name: Ivy Keeping
Gender: Female
Year: 1937
Parliamentary Division: Carshalton, Surrey, England
House Number: 6 Sibton Road
Reference Number: 046

Ivy went to Bermondsey at somepoint, maybe to be working in service???

Ah -

this looks like the Alice R who was born in 1912:

Alice R Watkins
in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Alice R Watkins
Admission Age: 1
Record Type: Admission
Birth Date: abt 1912
Admission Date: 2 Apr 1913
Admission Place: Islington, Islington, London, England

Alice R Watkins
in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Alice R Watkins
Discharge Age: 1
Record Type: Discharge
Birth Date: abt 1912
Discharge Date: 1 Apr 1913
Discharge Place: Islington, Islington, London, England


Alice R Watkins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Alice R Watkins
Estimated birth year: abt 1912
Registration Year: 1913
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 207

Possible siblings of the twins born in Islington - though now doubtful, as there seems to be no sign of a sister other than Alice who died in infancy:

Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Watkins Henry C West Islington 1b 323

Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
WATKINS Robert W West Islington 1b 284

Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
Watkins Victor West Islington 1b 192

thats sad! Is there anything saying what Alice died of?

thats sad! Is there anything saying what Alice died of?

No, you'd have to buy the death cert to find that out.

Alice was also in the workhouse infirmary in 1912, along with her sister Ivy.

Alice R Watkins
in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Alice R Watkins
Discharge Age: 7/12
Record Type: Discharge
Birth Date: abt 1912
Discharge Date: 25 Sep 1912
Discharge Place: Islington, Islington, London, England


They are Alice Rose, and Ivy Maud

Oh dear!
It doesn't look as if your Ivy is the one born in Islington 1912 after all.

This may be the death of that one:

Ivy M Watkins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ivy M Watkins
Estimated birth year: abt 1912
Registration Year: 1913
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 223


Back to the drawing board.

If you think the 1932 marriage for Ivy to Alfred Keeping is the right one, then it might be an idea to buy a copy of the cert to find out her parents' names.

Maybe these are the right twins?

Born in Wales, although not Neath, and no middle initial for Ivy, as per marriage and 1939:

Births Jun 1911 (>99%)
Watkins Ivy Pontypridd 11a 625
Watkins Elsie M Pontypridd 11a 625

Mother's maiden name Goldsworthy.


Possible marriage of parents:

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Goldsworthy Emma Pontypridd 11a 702 S
Watkins Thomas John Pontypridd 11a 702