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Arthur Martin my great great uncle, believe killed in war.

David L Jenkins my great great uncle drowned in Wales. Think he fell in the pond, the locals were warned of the dangers of said pond. It was a tragic accident.

Arthur Potter 1882 to 1961 was my great grandfather
Charity Martin 1883 to 1911, my great grandmother (died in childbirth)

Linda Martin is the daughter of Arthur Samuel Martin 1906-1995

Arthur Samuel Martins parents are:

Isaac Martin 1874-1928
Elizabeth Ann Martin 1946

Barrie Told me he has the same grandparents (as above) Isaac and Elizabeth.

I know this is a long and quite old thread, but myself and 3 of my cousins are still having difficulty in finding my Great Great Grandfather James Thomas Potter from 1891 onwards.

The first part of this thread is about James Thomas Potter, it does then go on to other family members, but it is James that we have hit a brick wall with.

We know that in 1889 his wife, Elizabeth had married another man, Edward Jenkins, the story in the family is that he abandoned his wife and children and just disappeared.

There was a rumour that he was charged with some sort of theft, and I found a couple of entries in the welsh newspapers, which may or may not be him, there is not enough information to prove it either way, there is also a rumour that he went to Canada.

We have him on the 1881 census with the family, and his last son Charles Potter was born in 1887, then 2 years later Elizabeth had married someone else.

If you are able to give us any help regards his whereabouts from 1891 onwards it would be very greatly appreciated, otherwise he will just have to remain one of those unsolved mysteries.

Thank you in anticipation.

James Thomas was baptised as Thomas James (unless this is a brother ?? ):


Thomas James Potter
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Thomas James Potter
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 Feb 1858
Baptism Place: Woolwich St Mary Magdalene, Greenwich, England
Father: Samuel Potter
Mother: Elizabeth Potter
Register Type: Parish Registers


As you mentioned Canada, I'm only posting this death to rule it out:

Thomas James Potter
in the Web: Canada, GenWeb Cemetery Index
Name: Thomas James Potter
Birth Date: 1854
Age at Death: 83
Death Date: 1937
Cemetery: Clinton Cemetery
Burial Place: Huron County, Ontario, Canada

That man was born in Ontario; parents Thomas and Matilda ; wife Fanny.

I have a copy of that baptism, and had not noticed the name was Thomas James on it. The address on the record I have for the parents is 19 Chapel Street. States his dob 26th Dec 1855.

His son was Thomas James Potter b 1878.

We did find that Canada death, we thought we had at last found him, but it is not him.

I have a couple of his children's birth certificates I will have a look at them, it will take me a little while because I have collected piles of paperwork

On his marriage certificate to Elizabeth he has put his name as James Thomas Potter.

1861 and 1871 census's he is Thomas Potter, when with his parents

1881 when with his wife, its James T Potter

I have a copy of his actual birth certificate (that's why I didn't look at the baptism very closely) Its James Thomas Potter

His son Samuel's b/c states Thomas James Potter

His son Thomas James b/c he is stated as just Thomas Potter

His son William Walter b/c he is Thomas James Potter

His son Arthur (my great grandfather) he is stated as Thomas James Potter

He seems to call himself different names, or a combination of his given names

Haven't read all through, but there are below Baptisms...(no idea if you have, from FMP)

Chris :)

Potter Charles 1887 — 1892 (27th July 1892) Glamorganshire Baptisms Ystradyfodwg, Glamorganshire, Wales (Born July 1st Jan 1887) (Parents, James Thomas and Bessie, Abode, Ash Terrace, Pentre, Father occ. Stoker)

(at same time)

James Thomas (Born 2nd Jan 1878)
William Walter (Born 28th Oct. 1879)
Arthur (Born 25th Feb. 1882)
Samuel (Born 28th Dec. 1885)

Jenkins Edward Thomas (Born 10th Jan. 1890) (Parents, Edward and Bessie, Abode, Ash Terrace, Pentre, Father occ. Collier)
Jenkins Mary Elizabeth (Born 8th Aug. 1891)

1894 (12th July) Ystradyfodwg
Jenkins Priscilla (Born 9th Sept. 1893) (Parents Edward and Bessie, Abode, 5, Oddfellows Row, Ystrad. Father occ. Collier)

(not seeing Baptism for Caroline)


Edits (seeing Wattstown on below, would have thought those 2 Newspaper References (James Thomas Potter) related)

https://newspapers.library.wales/search/advanced

(also an Arthur Potter, and David Llewellyn Jenkins (pond reference)


1901
Edward Jenkins Head Married Male 37 1864 Insurance Agent Aberavon, Glamorganshire, Wales
Elizabeth Jenkins Wife Married Female 43 1858 - Glamorganshire, Wales
James T Potter Step Son Single Male 23 1878 Coal Miner Hewer Llantrisant, Glamorganshire, Wales
Arthur Potter Step Son Single Male 18 1883 Coal Miner Hewer Porth, Glamorganshire, Wales
Samuel Potter Step Son Single Male 16 1885 Coal Miner Hewer Porth, Glamorganshire, Wales
Charles Potter Step Son Single Male 14 1887 Coal Miner Hewer Wattstown, Glamorganshire, Wales
Edward T Jenkins Son Single Male 11 1890 - Wattstown, Glamorganshire, Wales
Mary E Jenkins Daughter Single Female 9 1892 - Pentre, Glamorganshire, Wales
Priscilla Jenkins Daughter - Female 5 1896 - Glamorganshire, Wales
Caroline Jenkins Daughter - Female 3 1898 - Ystradyfodwg, Glamorganshire, Wales
David Llew Jenkins Son - Male 1 1900 - Ystradyfodwg, Glamorganshire, Wales
45, Llewellyn Street, Ystradyfodwg, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire


(notes below Baptism, if Father is the Edward Thomas above)

1912 (4th Jan. 1912) Pontlottyn
Jenkins David Llewellyn, Parents, Edward Thomas and Helen, Abode, 7, King Street, Pontlottyn, Father occ. Collier)

(if below relates)

Marriages Sep 1911 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Jenkins Edward T Merthyr Tydfil 11a 1287
Mann Ellen Merthyr T. 11a 1287


Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
Jenkins David L Man Merthyr T 11a 1614

(Newspaper article for Edward Thomas Jenkins a possibility!)


(below possibly his Father, would be on Ancestry)

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9739793

(Retirement from Metropolitan Police: Samuel Potter)


Does below War Death relate?, wife Edith Martin, Marriage 1904.

L/Cpl S. Potter Welsh Samuel Potter
Lance Corporal 16833 Welsh Regiment, 10th Battalion.
Died July 12 1916.
Flatiron Copse Cemetery, Mametz, Somme, France, Grave IX. G. 2.


(looking round on google search, 1893 a 'Hauliers Strike'
Enginemen and stokers had their own union... especially Ystradyfodwg which includes most of the Rhondda.)

(was looking to see 'Stoker' in relation to Coal Mining, seeing his occ. on 1892 Baptisms, thought he had joined the Navy, lol)

You are right with all those postings, I don't have FMP so I didn't have the baptisms, so thank you for those.

There are 2 Samuel Potters, the one you posted above who died in WW1. He was my 2x Great Uncle.

The other Samuel Potter 1823 to 1889, was my 3x Great Grandfather, he was in the Metropolitan Police. Its his son Thomas James Potter 1855 to ???? that I am trying to trace.

The last siting I have for him is in the 1881 census, with his wife Elizabeth, the family story is that he left them all and no one heard of him after that, my 2x Great Grandmother Elizabeth then married an Edward Jenkins, she went on to have children with Edward, this part of the tree has a lot of people in it Potters/Jenkins/Martins, they are all related, in fact its so complicated that my own tree on Ancestry is a bit of a mess.

Just for information, the Edith Martin you posted above, was married to the Samuel Potter you posted 1884 to 1916, killed in WW1. they also had 6/7 children before he died, then she married a David Jones Thomas 1881-1948 and had 4 more.

As said above, this part of my tree is huge and complicated, but its 3x Great Grandfather Thomas James Potter 1855 to ???? that we don't know anything about after he disappeared.

Two of my 2nd cousins have been looking for him for about 15 years without success, that's how I got all the copies of there birth/marriage certificates.

I am adding this to this thread because there is a lot of information about this part of my family which has already been researched.

I am stuck again.... Am trying to find any siblings belonging to David Llewellyn Jenkins. Born 16th July 1911. Pontlottyn and died 1 Nov 1990 Bargoed. He is my 1st cousin 2x removed.

His Father Edward T Jenkins 1890-1918 (killed in WW1)
Mother Ellen Mann (or Man) 1883 ???(I think) to ??? (cant verify)

I have looked on Ancestry, FMP,GRO and BMD and cant find any siblings. I have spoken to a friend of the family who thinks there were 2 brothers, one possibly called Andrew. This friend knew David L Jenkins quite well because he worked with him in the coal pits. He told me that he is sure he had 2 brothers who both went their separate ways once they got married.

I am beginning to wonder if they had a different mother or father to D L Jenkins.

Any help would be really appreciated because I have 2 brick walls in this area of the family.

Thank you in advance.

I would be really grateful if you could kindly just check for me to see if he was in fact the only child.

Were the alleged brothers supposed to be younger than David?

If so, they could have been born to the mother after David's father died in 1918

On the register of effects for Edward, dated 1919, ONLY David is mentioned

Ditto the man's service records

For our reference (apologies if already posted):

Marriages Sep 1911 (>99%)
Jenkins Edward T Merthyr Tydfil 11a 1287
Mann Ellen Merthyr T. 11a 1287


Did they continue to live in Wales?

There are a number of Jenkins/Mann births, from Sept 1911 onwards, but in Orsett reg district (Essex).

George E 1911, John W 1913, Ada L 1915, Frederick J 1917, Winifred F 1919, Violet O 1921, and another Frederick J 1936.

No Andrew.



EDIT:

NO - looking back through this thread, I see Edward T died in Wales, and so did David - so the Orsett births cant be relevant.

To find out factual info relating to Ellen, you'll need her marriage cert.

The marriage was after the date of the 1911 census, so no possibility of discovering her birth year other than by getting the marraige cert.

Once you know when she was born, you can look for her in 1939 and beyond

David's father's death

Name: Edward Thomas Jenkins
Residence: Pontygwaith, Glam.
Death Date: 6 Nov 1918
Death Place: Egypt*****************************************************
Enlistment Place: Pentre, Glam.
Rank: Private
Regiment: The Royal Welsh (Welch) Fusiliers
Battalion: 2nd Garrison Battalion
Regimental Number: 243422
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Egyptian Theatre
Comments: Formerly 4412, Royal Field Artillery.

Yes I did see those Orsett births, ruled them out as I know they all stayed in Wales. I do have the marriage certificate, they married the same year that David was born.

Don't know if the alleged brothers were older or younger. When I was checking I looked at both spellings Man and Mann, but only came up with David.

Maybe they were younger and to another father.

I will find my copy of the marriage certificate, and as you suggest ErikaH will look for Ellen in 1939.

Was hoping this would answer a few questions, maybe it will if I can find her on the 1939, thank you anyway for your help, I think I need to look to see if she re married, and then had more children.

Thank you for looking, and for the suggestions, very much appreciated.

Ellen remarried.

Marriages Mar 1920 (>99%)
Jenkins Ellen O'Keefe Bedwellty 11a 216
O'Keefe Patrick Jenkins Bedwellty 11a 216


???
Births Mar 1925 (>99%)
Okeefe James J Mann Merthyr T. 11a 1337


EDIT:
and relating death;

James John O'Keefe
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: James John O'Keefe
Death Age: 65
Birth Date: 8 Feb 1925
Registration Date: Sep 1990
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Inferred County: Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 27
Page: 221




Patrick O'Keefe
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Patrick O'Keefe
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 15 Mar 1870
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 6 King Street
Residence Place: Gelligaer, Glamorganshire, Wales
Occupation: Surface Labourer
Schedule Number: 147
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: XJJB
Registration district: 593-1
Inferred Spouse: Ellen O'Keefe
Household Members:
Name
Patrick O'Keefe
Ellen O'Keefe - 2 June 1887
This record is officially closed.
This record is officially closed.
This record is officially closed.
David D Jenkins 16 July 1911 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

David's middle" initial" is "Ll" on the image.


David Llewellyn Jenkins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: David Llewellyn Jenkins
Death Age: 79
Birth Date: 16 Jul 1911 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration Date: Nov 1990
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Inferred County: Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 27
Page: 24

As I stated above, ONLY David was recorded on his father's military records

So Edward didn't father any other children with Ellen

Ellen O'Keefe
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ellen O'Keefe
Death Age: 66
Birth Date: abt 1887
Registration Date: Jan 1953
[Feb 1953]
[Mar 1953]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: east Glamorgan
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 296

OMG. You have just broken down one of my brick walls.

David was always known as Dai Keefe and no one ever knew why.

AG and Erika, you are wonderful, thank you so much.