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David Samuel, b abt 1827-1830 Ystradgynlais
Sarah Samuel (nee Lewis) b abt 1826-1828 Carmarthen
Charles Samuel, b abt 1848-50 Ystradgynlais/Cwmtwrch
William Samuel, b abt 1857, Ystradgynlais
David Samuel, abt 1863-64 Ystradgynlais/Cwmtwrch
Angharad Samuel, abt. 1863, Aberdare Glamorgan
Caroline Samuel, abt 1868, Aberdare, Glamorgan

I already have the full census records for this family at the following addresses:
1861 Cwmtwrch, Ystradgynlais,
1871 23 Wellington St, Cwmdare, Aberdare, Glamorgan
1881 - 17 Church Row, Aberdare, Glamorgan
1891 - 9 Belle Vue, Aberdare, Glamorgan

Wiliam Samuel (b 1857 Cwmtwrch, Llanguick) birth certificate states David Samuel & Sarah Samuel (nee Lewis) as his parents

David Samuel (age 24 Widowed) & Sarah Samuel (nee Lewis) (age 25) were married Feb 19th 1853 Ystradgyunlais, the marriage certificate states David was resident of Cwmtwrch and his father was David Samuel, Sarah’s father was William Lewis
Charles birth date precedes the marriage and as David was a widower I assumed that he remarried after Charles mother died!

Found another marriage for David Samuel in Ystradgynlais (again with father David, same Church, residence of Cwmtwrch etc.) – to Ann Daniel on 30/09/1848 so likely this is Charles mother.

Problem – tracing David Samuel back further. His ages between marriage certificate, census rec’s, and William’s birth certificate vary from 1827- 1830. I did find a baptism in Ystradgynlais records for a David Samuel with father David Samuel and mother Gwenllian – but the baptism year was 1834!! Q. How can I establish the parents of my David Samuel, the only 1851 and 1841 census entries that matched with the birthdate of 1829 was with a father John Samuel!?

Any ideas would be very welcome?

Did the baptism record for David say how old he was when he was baptised? I've seen records for people who were baptised in their teens.

Who were the witnesses on the marriage cert?
Jan

Reference only - is this your family
1861 census transcription details for: Cwmtwrch, Ystradgunlais

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 4089
Folio: 7
Page: 8
Reg. District: Neath
Sub District: 4 Ystradgunlais
Parish: Ystradgunlais
Enum. District: 1
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Cwmtwrch, Ystradgunlais
County: Glamorganshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SAMUEL, David Head Married M 32 1829 Iron Miner Ystradgunlais, Breconshire
SAMUEL, Sarah Wife Married F 35 1826 Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire
SAMUEL, Charles Son M 11 1850 Ystradgunlais, Breconshire
SAMUEL, William Son M 4 1857 Llanguick, Glamorganshire
SAMUEL, David Son M 1 1860 Llanguick, Glamorganshire

Witnesses were David Samuel and William Lewis.

I haven't seen the full baptism record, only the list of Baptism in Ystradgynlais Library. There are a few children listed, with baptism dates evenly spaced out between 1831 and 1844, as there's a John Samuel Baptism in 1831. I haven't been to look up the full record as I only read it yesterday - is it worth my checking all the Baptism registers for Samuels in Ystradgunlais during that period?

Yes Stuart - that's my family.

Don't know whether this helps or hinders. The only Charles Samuel shown on the 1851 census, but he can't be the Rees' son. Is he grandson, or can anyone make any more sense of his "occupation" ?

1851 census transcription details for: Cwmtwrch, Ystradgunlais

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 2464
Folio: 55
Page: 14
Reg. District: Neath
Sub District: Ystradgunlais
Parish: Ystradgunlais
Enum. District: 1C
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Cwmtwrch, Ystradgunlais
County: Glamorganshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
REES, Evan Head Married M 55 1796 Labourer Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire
REES, Margaret Wife Married F 61 1790 Labourer Wife Ystrad, Brecknockshire
SAMUEL, Charles Son Unmarried M 1 1850 Labourer Nursing Son Ystrad, Brecknockshire

Stuart
I saw that and wondered if Charles' mother (David 1st wife) was ill or had died and that Charles was being 'nursed' by family members/friends. Is that what Nursing Son means? One of the David's younger siblings was named Rees - so, which could have been another family name!

Charles Samuel's birth?
Civil Registration event: Birth

Name: SAMUEL, Charles
Registration district: Neath
County: Glamorganshire
Year of registration: 1849
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 26
Page no: 477
---------------------------------------------------------------

Possible death of ?? his mother Anne
Civil Registration event: Death

Name: SAMUEL, Anne
Registration district: Neath
County: Glamorganshire
Year of registration: 1850
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: 26
Page no: 390

Stuart
Thank you.
So that would tie in with the two marriages I found for David.
But I'm still not sure how to verify if my David is the son of David & Gwenllian Samuel.

Name: David Samuel
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 16 Feb 1834
Christening Place: YSTRADGYNLAIS,BRECON,WALES
Father's Name: David Samuel
Mother's Name: Gwenllian
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C08152-1
System Origin: Wales-ODM
GS Film number: 104500

Name: William Samuel
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 13 Feb 1836
Christening Place: YSTRADGYNLAIS,BRECON,WALES
Father's Name: David Samuel
Mother's Name: Gwenllian
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C08152-1
System Origin: Wales-ODM
GS Film number: 104500

?????????

Name: David Samuel
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1861
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: Ystradgunlais, Breconshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Neath
Sub-District: 4 Ystradgunlais
Ecclesiastical Parish:
Parish: Ystradgunlais
Residence County: Glamorganshire

have you looked on the free LDS site - www.familysearch.org?

there are 63 Samuel's born in Ystradgynlais

AnnCardiff, thank you for these details and I will check out that site.

With born 1830 =/- 5 years, found this David Samuel - with parents David and Gwenllian!!

And a ?? possible Rees connection

1851 census transcription details for: Plasycoed, Ystradgunlais

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 2464
Folio: 44
Page: 40
Reg. District: Neath
Sub District: Ystradgunlais
Parish: Ystradgunlais
Enum. District: 1B
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Plasycoed, Ystradgunlais
County: Glamorganshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SAMUEL, David Head Married M 48 1803 Collier Llangristiolus, Carmarthenshire
SAMUEL, Gwenllian Wife Married F 47 1804 Llandebie, Carmarthenshire
SAMUEL, John Son Unmarried M 18 1833 CollierYstradgunlais, Brecknockshire
SAMUEL, David Son Unmarried M 17 1834 Collier Ystradgunlais, Brecknockshire
SAMUEL, William Son Unmarried M 14 1837 CollierYstradgunlais, Brecknockshire
SAMUEL, Thomas Son Unmarried M 12 1839 Scholar Ystradgunlais, Brecknockshire
REES, Catherine Servant Unmarried F 18 1833 House Servant Llandebie, Carmarthenshire

1841 census transcription details for: Bring Grass, Ystradgunlais, Palleg

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1367
Book/Folio: 19/15
Page: 22
Reg. District: Neath
Sub District: Ystradgunlais
Parish: Ystradgunlais
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Bring Grass, Ystradgunlais, Palleg
County: Brecknockshire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
SAMUEL, David M 35 1806 Miner
SAMUEL, Gwenllian F 35 1806
SAMUEL, Mary F 14 1827
SAMUEL, Margaret F 12 1829
SAMUEL, John M 9 1832 Breconshire
SAMUEL, David M 8 1833 Breconshire
SAMUEL, William M 6 1835 Breconshire
SAMUEL, Thomas M 2 1839 Breconshire

A 75 year old William Samuel lives a couple of doors away

David's year of birth varied by 3 years through 1861-1881 census. I wonder - if it is the correct David in 1841/1851 whether he had to AGE for a 1853 wedding. Sarah shows as 3 years older than him in 1861 - if he was born 1834, there would have been an 8 year difference??

If this is his death it shows his age as 70 so b 1834/5 - info as known to whoever registered the death

that Bring Grass on your posting Stuart :-D I would imagine it's really Brynglas :-D

That 'bring glass' did make me snigger, you're probably right Ann.
I'm signing off for tonight. Great help everyone, thanks again.