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both born 1878 in or around London.Have wedding cert. 30/03/1899.Williams father David Evans. Julias father John James Masters. Possible connection for Julia with a Charles Webb family.Any help anyone?
Robert

Births Mar 1879 (>99%)
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Masters Julia Jane Westminster 1a 492

1891 England Census 1891 England Census
Name: Julia J Masters
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Plumstead, Kent, England

Civil parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviours
Town: Poplar
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 331
Folio: 89
Page Number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Webb 55
Mary A Webb 60
Charles J Webb 23
James J Masters 41 Step Son
Julia J Masters 12

Could this be Julia in 1881 using her middle name (possibly because her mother is called Julia too):-

1881 census transcription details for: 23, Little Newport St, St Anne Soho

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 131
Folio: 53
Page: 25
Reg. District: Westminster
Sub District: St Anne Soho
Parish: St Anne Soho
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 23, Little Newport St, St Anne Soho
County: London, Middlesex

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

MASTERS, Julia Wife Head Married F 23 1858 Needlewoman
Sunderland, Durham
MASTERS, Jane Daughter Single F 2 1879
St Anne, Middlesex<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Kath. x

Possible marriage for her parents (with father's names transposed):-


Name: MASTERS, James John
Registration district: Strand
County: London
Year of registration: 1877
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 1B
Page no: 876

MarriageFinder: James John Masters married one of the following people:

BUCKLEY, Julia Mary<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
PARKER, Caroline Jane
CATTERMOLE, Charles

Kath. x

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Julia Jane Masters
Record Type: Baptism <<<DOB March 10th
Baptism Date: 1 Apr 1879
Father's Name: James John Masters <<Carpenter
Mother's Name: Julia Mary Masters
Parish or Poor Law Union: Westminster
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address: 30 Kings St, Soho

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Mary Ann Raudad Masters
Name: Mary Ann Raudad Masters
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Mar 1879
Father's Name: James John Masters
Mother's Name: Julia Mary Masters
Parish or Poor Law Union: Westminster
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers

Same details as above

According to an Ancestry tree Julia Jane's mother was a Mary Ann Webb b 1860 daughter of a Charles G Webb born 1836 Kent

I don't think that tree can be right Barry. According to the 1891 census Mary Ann Webb born c1831 was the mother of James John Masters and the grandmother of Julia Jane Masters.

The baptism that Gins found gives Julia Jane's mother as Julia Mary Masters - which confirms the marriage I posted earlier.

Kath. x

Seems more likely to me that Mary Ann was James John's mother, and married Charles Webb as a widow, hence Jame John being step son in 1891:


Name: James John Masters<<<<
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Jul 1859
Father's Name: James Masters
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Masters<<<<<
Parish or Poor Law Union: Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Greenwich
Register Type: Parish Registers

BORN august 13th 1850 - so right age in 1891.

Father a labourer. Address Chapel St.

EDIT - Have to admit I can't find a Mary Ann Masters-Charles Webb marriage though.

EDIT. SNAP! Same thinking as Kath - who beat me to it!

There are transcription errors on both the baptisms that Gins posted. Both were baptised on 2nd April 1879 and Mary Ann's DOB is given as Jan 13th 1878.

On the 1891 James J is shown as step-son and is a ship's carpenter which might explain why is not on other censuses.

The tree on Ancestry has Mary Ann Webb (nee ?) as the mother of James

James in 1861:

1861 England Census
about James Masters
Name: James Masters
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Monk
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Monk
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England

Civil parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Woolwich
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich Dockyard
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 14
Piece: 404
Folio: 107
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Monk 38
Mary Ann Monk 37
James Masters 10
Maria Masters 14 Daughter
Thomas Monk 8 Son

and there is another census for the Webbs with Thomas Webb shown as brother so we should probably be looking for a Monk/Webb marriage for Mary Ann. Will look for the other census and post it

Thomas Monk in 1871 with the Webbs but if he is the husband of the Mary Ann in the 1861, she can't be the Mary Ann married to Charles Webb in this one:

1871 England Census
about Thomas Monk
Name: Thomas Monk
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Breth, Kent, England
[Erith, Kent, England]
Civil parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 7
Piece: 582
Folio: 4
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Webb 36
M A Webb 38
Charles Webb 2
Thomas Monk 43

This is possible for Mary Ann
Marriages Sep 1852 (>99%)
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Masters Mary Ann Greenwich 1d 834
MONK Thomas Greenwich 1d 834

1861 England Census 1861 England Census
Name: James Masters
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Monk
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Monk
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England

Civil parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Woolwich
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich Dockyard
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 14
Piece: 404
Folio: 107
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Monk 38
Mary Ann Monk 37
James Masters 10
Maria Masters 14
Thomas Monk 8




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Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%)
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Monk Mary Ann St.Saviour 1d 122
Webb Charles Gibbs St. Saviour 1d 122

1881 England Census 1881 England Census
Name: Mary A. Webb
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles G. Webb
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England

Civil parish: Poplar
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 6 Cotall St.
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 506
Folio: 97
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
Charles G. Webb 45
Mary A. Webb 48
Charles Webb 12

Further info on the marriages Barbara just posted.

Mary Ann's maiden name looks to be Griffiths.


Name: Mary Ann Masters - widow
Spouse Name: Thomas Monk - labourer
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 29 Aug 1852
Parish: Greenwich St Alphege
Borough: Greenwich
Spouse Father Name: William Monk - labourer
Register Type: Parish Register

Bride's father's name is John Griffths mariner

Witnesses Charles Crane and John [illegible]


Name: Mary Ann Monk - widow
Spouse Name: Charles Gibbs Webb - bachelor - lighterman
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Oct 1877
Parish: St George the Martyr
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Griffiths - mariner <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse Father Name: John Parsons Webb - mariner
Register Type: Parish Register

Wittesses James John Masters<<<<<<<<<
James Mason

1851 England Census 1851 England Census
Name: Mary Masters
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Masters
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Chidham, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Northfleet
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: North Aylesford
Sub-registration district: Northfleet
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 151
Piece: 1609
Folio: 60
Page Number: 36
Household Members: Name Age
James Masters 32
Mary Masters 31
Maria Masters 4
James Masters 7 Mo

????

Marriages Sep 1845
FRASER Matilda Augusta Lewisham 5 328
GREEN Hannah Lewisham 5 328
>>>GRIFFITHS Mary Ann Lewisham 5 328
>>>Masters James Lewisham 5 328
PAINTER William Lewisham 5 328
Peppercorn William Lewisham 5 328
SAICH Ann Lewisham 5 328
WINDER Thomas Lewisham 5 328

On the 1861 that I posted, there is a Jane Griffiths listed as mother - the image is very confused with several lodgers and she is the last on the image (age transcribed as 14!) so difficult to work out whose mother she is! The age has a cross through it and could be anything ending in 4. It also says she is unmarried.

The 1861 address for the Monk family is 8 Chapel St, which is the same address given for the baptism of James John Masters in 1859 that I posted

William Evans/Julia Jane Masters. posted 19 dec. A very big thank you to everyone who took time and effort to help me.the info is going to be very useful.once again thank you and Merry Xmas.
Robert