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Hi looking for 1891 census for the above address. In the previous censuses and in the 1901 and 1911 one, the KNOWLES family are living there: Robert (head), Mary Ann Downes (wife) and children (Richard Robert, Margaret Ann, John Charles, Harry and Thomas HV) although one or more children are absent depending on the censuses. I can't find any member of the family in the 1891 census but then they reappear in the following ones. Can anybody check for me just in case i've missed it? I'm interested in knowing if anyone else was living with them in the same house (grandparents, niece...as in the previous ones). Thanks for your help!

Hello Irene - should there be Road or Street after it - nothing coming up for Wavertree on it's own.

They weren't at that address in 1911?

KNOWLES, Robert Head Married M 53 1858 Wagon Repairer Whiston Lancashire
KNOWLES, Mary Ann Wife Married35 years F 53 1858 Liverpool Lancashire
KNOWLES, Robert Son Single M 34 1877 Police Constable Liverpool Lancashire
KNOWLES, Thomas H V Son Single M 23 1888 Milk Carter Liverpool Lancashire

RG number: RG14 Piece: 22598 Reference: RG14PN22598 RG78PN1326 RD455 SD9 ED46 SN198
Registration District: West Derby
Sub District: West Derby Western
Enumeration District: 46
Parish: West Derby

Address: 10 Credworth St Liverpool County: Lancashire <<<<

Found them at 174 Wavertree ROAD in 1901 but unfortunately there seems to be a big chunk of that street missing on the 1891, not finding them by name on Ancestry or FMP.

The 1891 census has 173 Wavertree Road, then the next page starts at 175.

also at 174 Wavertree Road with parents (?) John & Margaret in 1881

Thanks to all! Sorry! They were living in 10 Credworth St Liverpool in 1911...

1881 175 Wavertree
1891 disappeared!
1901 175 Wavertree
1911 Credworth St

Can't find them in 1871 either. So where are they in 1891 and in 1871?

Sorry! I meant 174 Wavertree and not 175!

Irene - given that they were at the same address in 1881 & 1901 it's highly likely they were there in 1891, it's just that part of the actual census seems to be missing.

Robert and Mary Ann wouldn't have been married in 1871 (1911 says 35 years) so you'll need their parents details to trace them back.

Yes, I have their details but still can't find them:

Robert Knowles (1858) parents John HV Knowles (b.1823) and Margaret (b.1817), as in 1881 the parents are living with Robert's family (and John HV being a "mater tailor" I presumed that it was their family home and that Robert brought his wife to live there. Maybe it was the other way round!

Thanks for your help so far! I was just wondering if they had been away living elsewhere during the census (there was a story of them coming from the Isle of Man which then turned out to be incorrect) but then the census would say if the house was not inhabited...the fact that the house itself has gone missing is just puzzling me that's all.

1871:

KNOWLES, John H V Head M 48 1823 Derbyshire, b Litton - Tailor
KNOWLES, Margaret Wife F 54 1817 Lancashire
KNOWLES, Mary Daughter F 20 1851 Lancashire - Machinist
KNOWLES, Margaret Daughter F 17 1854 Lancashire - General Servant
KNOWLES, Robert Son M 13 1858 Lancashire

Piece: 3841 Folio: 170 Page: 75
Registration District: West Derby
Civil Parish: West Derby
Municipal Borough: Liverpool

Address: 29 Bunyan Street, West Derby, Liverpool County: Lancashire

(All apart from John born Whiston)

Thanks MarieCeleste! very valuable info for me!

on an address search of Wavertree Road in 1991 ALL the even numbers appear to be missing.

It might be worth contacting the Lancs Record Office to see if they have the even numbers on fiche as they hold the fiches for all Lancashire census returns.

I f do find they are there I can look at it for you next time I go.

is this of any relevance to you?

Marriage: 11 Apr 1841 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancashire, England
John Knowles - of full age Tailor Bachelor of Whiston
Margaret Rylance - (X), of full age Spinster of Whiston
Groom's Father: John Knowles, Tailor
Bride's Father: James Rylance, Miner
Witness: James Rylance, (X); Martha Rylance, (X)
Married by Banns by: John Leach, Curate
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1845, Page 113, Entry 226
Source: LDS Film 1655236 item 2

Yes Ann thanks!!! I live in Italy so I'm making notes of all the things to do when I come over (although I don't know when!), I'll try and send an email to the Lanc Records office and see what they say. As for the marriage you found...fantastic! You've helped me go back a further generation! I know they had 3 children: Mary 8 b 1851, Margaret b 1854 and Robert 1858. The John you found the marriage of should be born in 1823 and Margaret in 1817. (census 1871). Margaret was older than John, maybe previous marriage? And from what you have found I can gather that they didn't have children till 10 years after the marriage...or maybe they did but they died or were away from home for the census. I presume (X) means they couldn't sign their name? My John though was born in Litton, Derbyshire.

I found the marriage on the parish clerks site lan-opc.org.uk

the 'of Whiston' bit on the record only means where he was living at the time of marriage, not where he was born

Margaret was described as a spinster so a 1st marriage for her if correct

yes 'X' means she 'made her mark'

this is actually the only baptism I ca find on lan-opc

Baptisms: 11 Oct 1848 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Henry Knowles - Child of John Knowles & Margaret
Abode: Whiston
Occupation: Tailor
Baptised by: Thos. Harries Off. Min.
Register: Baptisms 1843 - 1851, Page 207, Entry 1652
Source: LDS Film 1657584

Right...you've even found another child for me...you are a star! I'll see if they are on any of the pre-1871 censuses to see if there are any other children.

do you have the 1841 census?


Name Age
James Rylance 60
Margreat Rylance 55
Ellen Rylance 20
Martha Rylance 15
Henry Rylance 15
John Knowles 20 - occupation tailor

presumably Margaret was away working?

No I didn't thanks Ann, I'll dive around for the 1851-'61 ones now...just never know! But was John boarding or is he mentioned as son-in-law?