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That's fine Lynn. Good that you didn't start another thread. Not sure about editing but others will know.

I will re-read thread and see what I can find. I did look at that burial and seem to remember that the age did not fit.

Vera

the penny has just dropped, of course there weren't marriage certificates before 1837, so how do i find a wife's maiden name. i guess from parish records, heh ho, feeling a bit foolish.

thanks vera and ann cardiff for the below details. i have decided to call for this wedding certificate as i still can't find a marriage to agnes smith, but can't find the GRO reference and can't order without as it is before 1837.

can anyone help please. just tried to add this as an 'edit' but didn't seem to work so have added as a reply. hope that follows the correct procedure as still getting to grips with this posting stuff. thanks lynn

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William Lovell Name: William Lovell
Spouse Name: Ann Smith
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Nov 1826
Parish: Westminster St Martin in the Fields
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

Both of the Parish. Witnesses Chas ? Parker. Elizabeth Stewart

indexing project (batch) number: C04793-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 597808, 598162, 598163, 598164

Not careless at all Lynn. A lot of info at once can sometimes not always be helpful but we are so keen :-D

Will look at that burial.

Vera

Vera2010

oh dear, sorry i'm not suprised you are confused. i was taken back by the wonderful responses i got to this my first ever post, and was unsure how to reply on the board, so that's my excuse for being very careless in this posting.

it should read ann smith born 1801 baptised St Martins in the Field, father Thomas, mother Ann (my agnes is recorded on the censuses as born in Berwick upon Tweed); an Ann LOVELL buried St Mary-le-Bone 1828 age 21, (within a year of WIILIAM's birth); an ann smith & william james lovell married St Martin in the Field Nov 1826. so if all the same person she was the first wife and my agnes was the second!? but i can't find a marriage or birth for my agnes born 1801 who married William Lovell. so could agnes be a different ann? but then i've lost the berwick upon tweed connection.

lynn

following on from the suggestion that agnes can sometimes be ann, i can't find an ann smith born in berwick at the right sort of time either, or a william lovell marry an ann ? in Berwick. but 4 censuses have her down as agnes born in berwick upon tweed.

thanks lynn

Lynn

Bit confused about the Ann Smith burried St Marylebone in 1828 year after James' birth. If she was the 1st wife of William, I would have thought she would have been recorded as Ann Lovell. James wa born 1835.

Vera

hi MarieCeleste, thanks, yes i am using parish records. the last son was born in 1836, just just missed civil registration which i believe would have given me the mother's maiden name, lynn

thanks anncardiff, just did a reply but can't see it anywhere, perhaps i didn't press submit as i am new to all of this and it has taken me half an hour to work out how to use the board, and hope i am doing it correctly
thanks for your replies and sorry for sending a message, i thought there was a connection, i know now and will use the boards in future. lynn

thanks vera, yes i have seen all this and wondered if it is my relative, so great to see you've pulled it all out as a possible too. however, i have found an ann smith born 1801 baptised St Martins in the Field, father Thomas, mother Ann (my agnes is recorded on the censuses as born in Berwick upon Tweed; an Ann Smith buried St Mary-le-Bone 1828 age 21, (within a year of Jame's birth); an ann & william james lovell married St Martin in the Field Nov 1826. so if all the same person she was the first wife and my agnes was the second!? but i can't find a marriage or birth for my agnes born 1801 who married William Lovell. so could agnes be a different ann? but then i've lost the berwick upon tweed connection.

oophs sorry cagsie, not cagnie, i'm very new to all this, lynn
thanks cagnie, never thought ann might be used for agnes, so will check this out now, although she is agnes on censuses and childrens birth certificates.

Just in case you don't have this. Possibly with grandparents. William an Apprentice Tailor. William not born in County.

1841 England Census
about William Lovell Name: William Lovell
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Gender: Male

Civil parish: Berwick Upon Tweed
Hundred: Berwick upon Tweed
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Registration district: Berwick upon Tweed
Sub-registration district: Berwick upon Tweed
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 844
Book: 2
Folio: 42
Page Number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
James Smith 70
Isabella Smith 70
Elleanor Smith 40
Colville Smith 27
William Lovell 14
John Kalnet 9
Barbara Kalnet 10

Vera

This is the one Cagsie put up previously. William Snr a Stonemason

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about William James Lovell Name: William James Lovell
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 26.02.1827
Baptism Date: 25 Mar 1827
Father's Name: William Lovell
Mother's Name: Ann Lovell
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

???????????/
Both of the Parish. Witnesses Chas ? Parker. Elizabeth Stewart

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William Lovell Name: William Lovell
Spouse Name: Ann Smith
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Nov 1826
Parish: Westminster St Martin in the Fields
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

Vera

James Lovell
England and Wales Census, 1871
birth: 1836 St Pancras,? Middlesex
residence: 1871 St Pancras,? London,? Middlesex,? England
parents: Agnes Lovell


name: James Lovell
event: Census
event date: 1871
gender: Male
age: 35
relationship to head of household: Son
birthplace: St Pancras, Middlesex
record type: Household
registration district: Pancras
sub-district: Camden Town
event parish: St Pancras
county: London, Middlesex

Harriet Lovell
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 14 Oct 1832
christening: 26 Dec 1832 OLD CHURCH,?SAINT PANCRAS,?LONDON,?ENGLAND
parents: William Lovell,? Agnes


name: Harriet Lovell
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 26 Dec 1832
baptism/christening place: OLD CHURCH,SAINT PANCRAS,LONDON,ENGLAND
birth date: 14 Oct 1832
father's name: William Lovell
mother's name: Agnes
indexing project (batch) number: C04793-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 597808, 598162, 598163, 598164

James Smith Lovell
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 01 Apr 1836
christening: 22 May 1836 OLD CHURCH,?SAINT PANCRAS,?LONDON,?ENGLAND
parents: William Lovell,? Agnes


name: James Smith Lovell
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 22 May 1836
baptism/christening place: OLD CHURCH,SAINT PANCRAS,LONDON,ENGLAND
birth date: 01 Apr 1836
father's name: William Lovell
mother's name: Agnes
indexing project (batch) number: C04793-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 598164, 598165, 598166

Hello Lynn - whereabouts have you been looking for births and marriages? Obviously, civil registration didn't start until 1837 so have you been checking parish records?

John Colvill Smith Lovell
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 11 May 1852 Saint Martin In The Fields,?Westminster,?London,?England
spouse: Martha Charity Cook


groom's name: John Colvill Smith Lovell
bride's name: Martha Charity Cook
marriage date: 11 May 1852
marriage place: Saint Martin In The Fields,Westminster,London,England
indexing project (batch) number: M00145-5
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 561169, 561170, 561171, 561172, 561173, 561174, 561175

John Colvill Lovell
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 01 Jul 1829
christening: 26 Dec 1832 OLD CHURCH,?SAINT PANCRAS,?LONDON,?ENGLAND
parents: William Lovell,? Agnes


name: John Colvill Lovell
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 26 Dec 1832
baptism/christening place: OLD CHURCH,SAINT PANCRAS,LONDON,ENGLAND
birth date: 01 Jul 1829
father's name: William Lovell
mother's name: Agnes
indexing project (batch) number: C04793-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 597808, 598162, 598163, 598164

there is a baptism 25 mar 1827, born 28 feb 1827 in st pancras for william james lovell, to william and ann, living draper's place, father a stone mason

i have an agnes in my tree that is sometimes named ann on census so it could be them

James Smith Lovell b 1 apr 1835, bap'd 22 may 1835, same address and profession for wm

Harriet bap'd same day as John, born 14 oct 1832

John Colvill Lovell born 1 jul 1829, bap 26 dec 1832, northampton street, father a stone mason