Find Ancestors

As I wrote in my last blog I would come back with any info. Well we ordered and received 2 death certs. , we think Ernest William death was as suggested in 1942, but the death of Edith in Norfolk was definitely not.
We have found that she may have died in Fulham in 1908, an Ernest William Ward was named in a divorce petition in 1933 (Fred Savage v Marguerite Savage) both these facts as yet to be checked, only found these out today! Has anyone any idea about how to get divorce details?

Ian

Thank you all, between you, you have given me lots of information as well as making me think, "am I going in the right direction"
I have decided to first get the death cert. for Ernest William who died in West Ham 1942 (from It I will find who registered his death) At the same time I'm going to check out more about Edith E C Ward who died in Norfolk 1968
I will also look up the war records of Archie
When we have collected it all together and with a bit of luck solved all (this is likely to take a couple weeks) I will post information, wish me luck!
Ian

Thank you all, between you, you have given me lots of information as well as making me think, "am I going in the right direction"
I have decided to first get the death cert. for Ernest William who died in West Ham 1942 (from It I will find who registered his death) At the same time I'm going to check out more about Edith E C Ward who died in Norfolk 1968
I will also look up the war records of Archie
When we have collected it all together and with a bit of luck solved all (this is likely to take a couple weeks) I will post information, wish me luck!
Ian

Thanks Christine re the road name .its was rather flourished so difficult to decipher.

It does sound as if Ernest and Edith parted as there would seem to be no children after Archibald .

Maybe Ernest just decided to move on and remarry even though there was no divorce,maybe that's why he called himself William to cover his tracks..

Edith's name combination looks to be the only one so its very likely thats her death ref which ties with her birth year too

There is no Thurwell Road, but there is a Whewell Road near Holloway.

Very strange that Ernest should have batchelor on his marriage certificate.

Do you think it's worth ordering the death certificate that Shirley-I'm getting the hang of it posted:

Edith E.C. Ward - b. 1873 died 1968 in Norfolk

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

(1942 Burial for Ernest could be on above, pay to view)

Chris :)

Since last mail I have looked more carefully at Williams marriage cert. to Edith in 1896. He states his age as 21 yet 5 years later in the 1901 census he is 23?
He was actually only 17 when he married and his address was stated as 23 Egerton Terrace and he was a clerk. We wonder if he was marrying against his parents wishes
On the next what is possibly his later marriage to Elizabeth this cert. has his age wrong again 32 not 35, it states that heis a bachelor and lives at 9 Wingfield Road Leyton and this was a register office wedding.
We had hoped by finding more out about Archie we may be able to find clues to this conundrum. By the way we couldn't find 11 Thurwell Road

Since last mail I have looked more carefully at Williams marriage cert. to Edith in 1896. He states his age as 21 yet 5 years later in the 1901 census he is 23?
He was actually only 17 when he married and his address was stated as 23 Egerton Terrace and he was a clerk. We wonder if he was marrying against his parents wishes
On the next what is possibly his later marriage to Elizabeth this cert. has his age wrong again 32 not 35, it states that heis a bachelor and lives at 9 Wingfield Road Leyton and this was a register office wedding.
We had hoped by finding more out about Archie we may be able to find clues to this conundrum. By the way we couldn't find 11 Thurwell Road

The reason we are looking for Archie is he seems to have been the son of Ernest William Ward by his first wife.
Ernest William Ward was my wife's grandfather by his later marriage to Elizabeth Warren (1912)
We have the birth cert of my father-in-law on it his father is Ernest William Ward! We also have a copy of wedding cert and noted on it he is called only William Ward dropping the Ernest, this cert. Also tells us that his father is James. This is why we wondered about first wife, was it a legal marriage to Elizabeth! !
We understand he was born about 1878 as he was definitely older than Elizabeth (about 7 years)
They split up in 1935, Elizabeth moved to Hitchin Herts taking most of there children with her and then banned all reference to him.
We know he died in Whips cross hospital about 1942 Elizabeth was notified by letter of his death, and his youngest son registered it (he is still alive) but most of the paper work has disappeared.
Every body in the family knew him as Ernest William
If any one has any more information about Ernest William or his first wife Edith (nee Knowles) I would be very grateful

Ian and Sue

Mmm - maybe not.

I've found Edith Agnes Box now. She married Moses Knowles in 1873, and they're on the 1881 together with their son, Alfred W. Knowles b.1875 Buckinghamshire.

I suspect you know all this already.

Hi isd,

I'm not sure - is it just Archibald that you're interested in at the moment?

Are you also trying to trace back on Edith Knowles, or have you already done that?

Looking for the connection between Archibald and Edith Agnes Knowles (together in 1911)I couldn't find an earlier Edith Agnes Knowles, but there is an Edith Agnes Box baptised 1853 in Bermondsey.

The Joseph Forrester, who is with Edith Knowles on the 1891, married a Kate Box (b.1855 Bermondsey)

So I wondered if these are sisters. And, maybe, one of them is the mother of Edith Knowles.

Although Ernest is with the knowles family in 1911 dont thiink they are his inlaws cos no Edith found with them through the census and the 1891 census shows both as born c1855-1861 so mum at least to young to have a child in c1874

1891 census
Name: Georgiana Knowles
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Alfred Knowles
Gender: Female
Where born: Kensington, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1314
Folio: 6
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Knowles 36
Georgiana Knowles 30
Edmund Knowles 8
Georgina Knowles 6
Ernest Knowles 4
Sydney Knowles 1

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1314; Folio: 6; Page: 5; GSU roll: 6096424.


They married in 1880

Marriages Jun 1880
Gunnell Georgiana Harritt S W. Ham 4a 49
Knowles Alfred W. Ham 4a 49

Edith in 1891
Name: Edith C Knowles
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Wolverton, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Benet and All Saints
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Kentish Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 53
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 140
Folio: 132
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Hy Forrester 36
Kawa Forrester 36
Kawa Jake Forrester 7
Archibald Forrester 5
Edith C Knowles 17

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 140; Folio: 132; Page: 12; GSU

Is this his death then

Name: Ernest W Ward
Birth Date: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1942
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 24


Ernest William was born in 1877
Name: Ernest William Ward
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1877
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 102



he states he was born in West ham on the 1901 and Stratford 1911 (which is East London ,where the Olympics are on at the mo )

another PM recd . have asked that any replies are posted on the thread.


We have the birth cert of my father in law, It is Ernest William Ward on this cert! We have a copy of wedding cert and noted it was just William, on it it also states that his father is James.This is why we wondered about first wife, was it a legal marriage! We understand he was born about 1878 as he was definitely older than Elizabeth (about 7 years) We know he died in Whips cross hospital about 1942 Elizabeth was notified by letter of his death, and his youngest son registered it (he is still alive) but all the paperwork has been destroyed - lost.
Every body in the family knew him as Ernest William .

---------

You may have the birth cert of Ernest William but have you got his marriage cert to

Elizabeth Warren ? if so what does he give as his marital status ?

Ernest William def married Edith Knowles in 1896. Ref already posted. he also had Archibald working with him in his business to 1914 which he refers to in a letter to the Army . (posted above too_)

Just adding:
Marriages Dec 1896
Gardiner Emily Elizabeth W. Ham 4a 186
KNOWLES Alfred Walter W. Ham 4a 186
xxx KNOWLES Edith Elizabeth C W. Ham 4a 186
xxx WARD Ernest William W. Ham 4a 186

Added:
The 1901 census quoted has her born Wolverton, Buckinghamshire,

Added:
They show twice on 1901 (one entry page crossed out?)
Edith Wood
Spouse: Ernest Wood
Birth: abt 1874 - Wolverton, Buckinghamshire, England
Residence: 1901 - Walthamstow, Essex, England
Edith Ward
Spouse: Ernest W Ward
Birth: abt 1874 - Wolverton, Buckinghamshire, England
Residence: 1901 - Walthamstow, Essex, England

Archibald's Army record is on Ancestry and he lists his dad as next of kin

ERNEST William Ward of 11 Thurwell Road Holloway

Ernest writes from 11 Thurwell Road on Archibalds signing up that Archie has experience of Horses whist being in busines with him at Lancing & Bait ??? stables

Archibalds address on signing up in Nov 1914 was 86 Chandos Road Stratford

PM recd

Thanks for the Info.
We are researching Ernest William Ward father of Archie? (my wife's Grandfather) He married Elizabeth Warren in 1912 - 6 children. She left him in about 1935 and took children with her, he was NEVER spoken about after that. We think he died in 1942 in Whips Cross Hospital.
Ernest's father was James, and what happend to his first wife we don't know. We think we are looking at the right tree but are not sure, if so he was lodging with his mother-in-law in1911
If you can help with any more info we would be very very grateful,


my reply

Hi

well he is with Archie on the 1911 as posted on the thread.No wife with him although he stated married 14 years although his wife Edith isnt with them.
The marriage in 1912 was William Ward not Ernest William ??

Marriages Mar 1912

Ward William Warren W.Ham 4a 338
Warren Elizabeth Ward W.Ham 4a 338

What was his marital status on the cert ?


he died as William

Name: William Ward
Birth Date: abt 1887
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1942
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Wycombe
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 2408

so what makes you think he was Ernest William??

__________________________________
name: Edith Elizabeth C Knowles
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1873
Registration district: Potterspury
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 31

covered Wolverton so her birth cert will give her parents names


??
Name: Edith E C Ward
Birth Date: abt 1873
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1968
Age at Death: 95
Registration district: Acle
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 677


Name: Ernest W Ward
Birth Date: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1959
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Depwade
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 382


editing as Whipps Cross Hospital was in Leytonstone. I looked up Whipps Croos as an area!!!
he died as William

Name: William Ward
Birth Date: abt 1887
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1942
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Wycombe
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 2408



SO WRONG DEATH - have amended lower down the thread with the correct death

so reg in Mar 1898 he could have been born late 1897
Name: Archibald Ernest S Ward
Birth Date: 29 Nov 1897
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1980
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Banbury
Inferred County: Oxfordshire
Volume: 20
Page: 1976

did he survive WW1??
Name: Archibald E S Ward
Spouse Surname: Foreman
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1930
Registration district: Bromley
Inferred County: Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 1391
Find Spouse: Jessie Foreman