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Can anyone help me with a possible explanation. I am looking at a lady called catherine thomas Nee Williams... born abt 1846 in swansea. I have this lady married to an Edwin Penhorewood around abt 1865. she then goes on to marry George james thomas in 1867. On the second marriage cert she lists herself as a widow, I can seem to find any death record for an Edwin Penhorewood....

I Gather it was Edwin that she married from my convos with registry office and also information found on Ancestry etc...

Anyone researching the penhorwood family living in swansea have no info on Catheine ever marrying an Edwin penhorewood...

Really cant get my head around this one and dont know where to look....any help would be grateful for.... :-(

Marriage transcript details
Civil registration event: Marriage

Name: PENHORWOOD, Edwin
Registration district: Swansea
County: Glamorganshire
Year of registration: 1865
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: 11A
Page no: 796

MarriageFinder™: Edwin Penhorwood married one of the following people

DAVIES, Mary
WILLIAMS, Catherine
GRIFFITHS, John

maybe he didn't die, divorce was very expensive in those days

Marriage transcript details
Civil registration event: Marriage

Name: PENHORWOOD, Edwin
Registration district: Swansea
County: Glamorganshire
Year of registration: 1871
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name Not available before 1912
Volume no: 11A
Page no: 941

MarriageFinder™: Edwin Penhorwood married one of the following people

FOX, Ellen
WILLIAMS, Mary
JONES, Henry


1881 census

Address: 17, Colborne St, Swansea (Town)

PENHORWOOD, Edwin Head Married M 40 1841 Ship Carpenter wansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
PENHORWOOD, Ellen Wife Married F 31 1850 Ship Carpenter Wife wansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
PENHORWOOD, Edwin Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
PENHORWOOD, Kitty Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar Swansea, lamorganshire, Wales
PENHORWOOD, Clara Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
PENHORWOOD, Charles Son Single M 3 1878 Scholar Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
PENHORWOOD, Ellen Daughter Single F 0 1881 Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
FOX, Mary Lodger Widow F 80 1801 Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales

2 Edwin Penhorewood/Penhorwood were born in Swansea 1845 and 1847....


also if he was a miner and died in an accident underground there wont be a registered death for him if his body was never recovered.There most likey was a write up in a local newspaper from that time listing all those that died.

a couple of deaths that may be worth investigating, although neither were before the second marriage

>>edit they may be the same man

Maritime BMD details
Registration event: death

Name:PENHORWOOD, Edwin
Date of death:30 June 1896
Age:48
Place of death:Port Costa,Bay Of San Francisco
Place of birth:British
Belonging to service:
Ship's name:Benavon
Series:BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box:0015
Page:12


Overseas BMD details
Registration event: Death

Name: PENHORWOOD, Edwin
Vessel : Benavon
Country: At sea
Year: 1896
Page: 351
Age at death: 48
Record source: GRO Marine Death Indices (1846 to 1902)

Catherine re-married in 1867 - scarcely had time to get used to her new surname.

Marriages Mar 1867 (>99%)
PENHORWOOD Catherine Swansea 11a 659
REES Sarah Swansea 11a 659
Thomas George Swansea 11a 659
William Thomas Swansea 11a 659


Marriages Jun 1865 (>99%)
Davies Mary Swansea 11a 796
Griffiths John Swansea 11a 796
Penhorwood Edwin Swansea 11a 796
WILLIAMS Catharine Swansea 11a 796

The death above would fit with the one married to Ellen nee Fox.
1891 Ellen is married
1901 Ellen a widow.

1851
Edwin age 5 is with mum Mary age 44 a mariners wife.
Edwin age 4 is with dad James a mariner and mum Jane.

Maryb

Nicola
Where did you get your info about Catherine's birth year?

The only census records I can find which I think relate to her have her birth as c1849.

Two of them for INFO

1861

Name: Catherine Williams
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Williams
Mother's Name: Mary Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Swansea
Town: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Llangafelach
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4100
Folio: 19
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
John Williams 48
Mary Williams 41
Hannah Williams 20
John Williams 19
David Williams 16
Isac Williams 14
Catherine Williams 12
Lewis Williams 10
William Williams 5
Elizabeth Williams 3
Thomas Williams 3/12


1901

Name: Catherine Thomas
Age in 1901: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Swansea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 98
Piece: 5076
Folio: 13
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
George Thomas 52
Catherine Thomas 52
George Thomas 28
Georgina Korsen 25.................Widow
Emma Thomas 15
Maria Thomas 13

Marriages Sep 1899 (>99%)

Korsan Peter Magnus T Swansea 11a 1384
Thomas Georgina Swansea 11a 1384


Deaths Dec 1899 (>99%)
Korsan Peter Magnus T 20 Swansea 11a 620

Now....this is ODD

Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)
Declue Joseph Cardiff 11a 550
Declue Joseph T Cardiff 11a 550
Dedue Joseph Cardiff 11a 550
Dedue Joseph T Cardiff 11a 550
Groves George Henry Cardiff 11a 550
Korsan Georgina Cardiff 11a 550 **********
Ryan Margaret Cardiff 11a 550

IF this is the Thomas girl.........why is she shown as Korsan in 1901?


Margaret Ryan m. Joseph Declue

The marriage for Edwin and Ellen Fox.....there is a scanned copy of the marriage entry at Ancestry

Details:

Edwin Penhorwood (Bach) - Mariner Father James Master Mariner
Ellen Fox (Spinster) - Father John Fox Labourer

Address (respectively) Mary Terrace & Grave Place

Wit: Thomas Williams & Sarah Penhorwood

From a tree at Ancestry (fits in with the death that Tempest posted)


Edwin Penhorwood
*FOX of Swansea*
Birth: Sep 1847 - Glamorgan, Wales
Marriage: 29 Oct 1871 - Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Death: 30 June 1896 (30 Jun 1896) - San Francisco, USA
Parents: James Penhorwood, Jane
Spouse: Ellen Fox

He was a ships carpenter and had died of Brights Disease


There is a copy of the death details so they have been verified

For info from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright's_disease

Bright's disease is a historical classification of kidney diseases that would be described in modern medicine as acute or chronic nephritis. The term is no longer used, as diseases are now classified according to their more fully understood causes.[1][2][3]
It is typically denoted by the presence of serum albumin (blood plasma protein) in the urine, and frequently accompanied by edema and hypertension.

Is it me or is there a theme of short lived marriages with Catherine Williams m Edwin Penhorwood - which seems to just disappear as a relationship.

Then Catherine marries Mr Thomas (2 years later),

Their daughter (?) Georgina Thomas marries Peter Magnus Korsan in Sep 1899 and a death in Dec 1899 of a Peter Magnus Korsan. Another short lived marriage.

Then In 1901 she is a Widow in with the Thomas Family using the name Korsan but as Reggie posted earlier in Dec 1900:

Groves George Henry Cardiff 11a 550
Korsan Georgina Cardiff 11a 550 ********** Looking like her!

Wonder what happened to George Henry Groves!

This looks like the 'other' Edwin


County Glamorganshire
Place Swansea
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 24 Aug 1845
Forename Edwin
Sex M
FatherForename Thomas
MotherForename Margaret
FatherSurname PENHORWOOD
Abode Swansea
FatherOccupation Mariner
FileNumber 12975


Nicola you will need the marriage certificate for Catherine and Edwin to check the father



The above Edwins parents marriage I should think


County Glamorganshire
Place Swansea
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber
MarriageDate 10 Aug 1831
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname PENHORWOOD
BrideForename Margaret
BrideSurname COTTLE

FileNumber 18618

Edwin born 28/7/1845 baptised byThomas and Margaret 24/8/1845.
James baptised 16/12/1838.
Thomas married Margaret Cottle/Cattle 10/8/1831.

I think this is Edwin on 1851 census with mum Mary and brother James.
There was also another brother William @ 1832/3.

So there clearly was 2 Edwin's!!

Maryb.

1911 census transcription details for: 23 Patrick St Cardiff

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN32127 RG78PN1846 RD588 SD3 ED28 SN278

GROVES, George Head Married M 44 1867 Boarding House Keeper German Resident
GROVES, Georgena Wife Married
10 years F 38 1873 Assisting In Business Glamorgan Swansea

Still alive in 1911

If there were TWO Edwin Penhorwoods, what about this.......
(DId a search on FMP for deaths of Penhorwoods)

The age, location and year fit!!!! Not sure if he is an Edwin though

Registration event: death

Name:PENHORWOOD, En
Date of death:21 September 1865
Age:22
Place of death:Cuba Hospl
Port received from:Swansea
Port belongs to:Ship's name:Pedro Ferrer
Series:BT153 -
Registers of Wages and Effects of Deceased Seamen
Box:0006
Page:4

If I am reading the image correctly, it looks like he was an AB (Able Seaman) which according to Wikipedia :

In the British Royal Navy in the middle of the 18th century, the term able seaman (abbreviated AB) referred to a seaman with at least two years' experience at sea. Seamen with less experience were referred to as landmen or ordinary seamen.

He was engaged on the Pedro Ferrer 10/7/1865 and died on 21/9/1865, looks like Y Fever (so presume Yellow Fever). His first name is abbreviated to En, so likely Edwin. Nothing due to Estate, it shows in debt, Effects - there is a ditto (") so not sure if it means None or Sold.

That looks a likely candidate to me.

Maryb.

Many Many thanks to all of you that have taken time to help me.....i do have catherines marriage cert to George James thomas, and that is where i realised that she had been married to a penhorwood first, and yes for such a short time.
I did think that maybe she had run off and remarried or that edwin might have done that.....but looking at both there second marriages if it is the edwin that went on to marry a miss fox.....then they lived quite close and would have been hard to get away with pretendin the other was dead.
Anyway you have all given me a lot to think about and yes def need that second cert to get Edwins fathers name,.....only way to go i think....

and yes jannie a very strange family all around .....have found a lot of ladys on my mums side were a bit naughty and ran away with other men....so maybe this one no different...... :-0