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Dear Marie Celeste, and other respondents,
Thank you very much for all the information and advice. I had noted allotment's "late Christening" of John Hardman Lyons in Tattershall in 1829, and thought it evidence of another family--but perhaps I was wrong.
Thank you for explaining about the inaccuracies of name spellings of the period; I had not expected that so late in time.
Plenty of food for thought here!
Best wishes, from Helix14.

I am so pleased this baptism proves my point about the name variations!

England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
name: Benjamin Lion
event: Birth
event date: 15 Mar 1792
event place: Tattenhall, Cheshire, England
gender: Male
father: John Lion
mother: Elizabeth Malpas
film number: 2068755
digital folder number: 4018824
image number: 812

Source Citation
"England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F7PX-PBY : accessed 23 June 2012), Benjamin Lion, 1792.

You've now been given info about Benjamin's father - try looking on the IGI for a baptism

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

Nothing particularly unusual or significant about the son not being mentioned in the Will.

Also, be flexible in your thinking about names etc for those days.

Hi Helix, it is definitely not unusual that the names Lyon and Lyons were interchangeable - it's a fairly commonplace thing.

I'm probably more surprised that we haven't seen Lion(s), Lines, and various other interpretations.

I'm quietly confident that Benjamin Lyon and Benjamin Lyons are one and the same person.

I just love the old newspaper articles, they really give you a feel for the period. On the articles I sent, the creditors notices are in the name of Lyons but the house sale is Lyon - but they are the same person.

One of the things I've learned in recent years is not to expect our ancestors to be as precise as we are when it comes to names, ages, birthplaces, occupations.

From: Helix14

10:21 PM




Thank you very much for the pages of the Chester Chronicle. On scrutinising them--how interesting they are, a real picture of life in those days--it seems to be Mr Lyons who is involved, not Lyon. But he is a coal merchant among his other trades. I still can't reconcile it with the death Cert of Mary Lyon in 1851, "wife of Benjamin Lyon."
The Mr Lyons here signed his Will Lyons, so it can't just be a spelling mistake....
Yes, The Will record is familiar. It is signed By Benjamin Lyons with the "s." He leaves whatever he had left to Eliza, and in the event of her prior death, to his sister-in-law, so cutting his children out thoroughly.
Thank you, please share any ideas you may have,
from Helix 14.

Thank you very much for the pages of the Chester Chronicle. On scrutinising them--how interesting they are, a real picture of life in those days--it seems to be Mr Lyons who is involved, not Lyon. But he is a coal merchant among his other trades. I still can't reconcile it with the death Cert of Mary Lyon in 1851, "wife of Benjamin Lyon."
The Mr Lyons here signed his Will Lyons, so it can't just be a spelling mistake....
Yes, the Will is the one I have for Benjamin Lyons, cement manufacturer. He died in 1872, leaving whatever was left to Eliza.
Thank you, please share any ideas you may have,
from Helix 14.

Thank you for your helpful replies.
Yes, Benjamin LyonS did remarry after the death of his wife Mary in 1851; the certificate of her death states name is Lyon, both hers and his. The new wife was Eliza Sudlow and she seems to have been quite mature.
If Benjamin Lyon and Lyons are the same person, it is possible that John Hardman Lyon did not take kindly to the stepmother--I must say that hadn't occurred to me, so thank you very much. Do you experienced genealogists think it likely that a man might change from one surname to another in 19th Century?

This strengthens that the 1855 marriage is correct:

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: Benjamin Lyons
Probate Date: 18 Jul 1872
Death Date: 29 May 1872
Death Place: Cheshire, England
Registry: Cheshire, England

Effects under £600. The will of Benjamin Lyons late of Tarvin Bridge near Chester, cement manufacturer, proved Chester by Henry Sudlow of Liverpool, secretary to the Philharmonic Society and John Pemberton of Liverpool, Attorney at Law - the executors.


Helix - is this the record that you have the full will for?

Just because there are no children mentioned in the will I wouldn't rule it out. What if that was his remarriage and they'd fell out because they didn't like the stepmother?

Standing back and taking a wide view - as it were! - this is just the same man isn't it? MarieCelete's fantastic find just clinches it surely?
Jan

LIVERPOOL MERCURY - Tuesday 15 May 1855
"Marriages"

May 10, at St Nicholas', by the Rev A J Tomlin, Mr Benjamin Lyons, Boughton, Cheshire to Eliza, daughter of the late Mr Richard Sudlow of Huyton.


** Is this a remarriage for Benjamin following Mary's death? Possibly:

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
Name: Benjamin Lyons, widower. Coal merchant of Boughton, Chester.
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 10 May 1855
Parish: Liverpool St Nicholas
Spouse's Name: Eliza Sudlow, spinster. Parish of Liverpool.
Father's Name: John Lyons - Farmer
Spouse Father's Name: Richard Sudlow - Bookkeeper

Witnesses: Mary (or could be Harry) Sudlow, Caroline Margaret Sudlow & Elizabeth Tapeley ?

There are a number of articles in the British Newspaper Archives dated 1859 about a Benjamin Lyon, coal merchant, of Hoole Park, Chester who was a coal, brick, tile & slate merchant and cement manufacturer. He seems to have conducted business at Tarvin Wharf.

Basically, it looks like he went bust. The articles appear to be the transfer of his assets to creditors and he was also selling his house.

In some articles he is Lyons and others Lyon, but is always of Tarvin Wharf.

Check your inbox - I'm sending you samples of the actual articles.

Seems to tie the coal and cement aspects together ........

Hard to say if the chap in the article would be the father or a son. Could even be a different chap altogether.

This Benjamin is a Corn Miller and Cement Manufacturer in 1871.

LYONS, Benjamin Head M 79 1792 Cheshire
LYONS, Eliza Wife F 69 1802 Shropshire
Piece:3727 Folio:78 Page: 62
Registration District: Chester. Civil Parish: Great Boughton
Address: Tarvin Road, Great Boughton. County: Cheshire


The John Hardman Lyon marriage posted earlier by me above has him living in Christleton, Cheshire which makes brummiejan's 1851 census above look good.

Thank you everyone for your replies re Benjamin Lyon, coal merchant, of Chester.
I have some details about Benjamin LYONS, cement manufactuer, of Chester, and of his Will, which does not mention any children, and that is one reason for my suspicion that there are 2 people of a similar name living in Victorian or Regency times in Chester. That Benjamin Lyon, without the "s" is a differnt person is implied by the death certificate of his wife Mary Lyon, in 1851.--and by the family Lyon continuing as Lyon not Lyons. But I still can't explain the Hardman connection!
If anyone has an inspiration, please help me with this difficulty.

I do believe the 1841 is correct for Benjamin, do you agree? Occ. matches.
Jan

Dear Reggie,
Thank you very much for your reply re Benjamin Lyon of Chester. I knew that John Hardman Lyon married Charlotte Hamilton in 1847; the occupation of Benjamin Lyon is from their marriage certificate. My ancestor is Frederick Hamilton Lyon, aged 4 on the data you have kindly presented.
It is Benjamin who is presenting the brick wall. I do not think he is the same person as Benjamin Lyons. I have a Death Cert. for Mary Lyon, wife of Benjamin Lyon, 1851, and the Will of Benjamin LyonS does not mention any children. Ergo--not the same person. What do you think?
Please excuse me if I am a little bit awkward, as I have only recently joined Genes Reunited.
Best wishes
from Helix 14.

."England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," Benjamin Lyons, 1817
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No image available Search collectionAbout this collectionGroom's Name: Benjamin Lyons
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Mary Hardman
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 20 Jul 1817
Marriage Place: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00546-5
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 438190, 438191
Reference Number:

A late christening?
Name: John Hardman Lyons
Sex: Male
Christening Date: 28 Jun 1829
Date of Birth:
Location: Tattenhall
Father: Benjamin Lyons
Mother: Mary
City or Town: Tattenhall. County:Cheshire

Name: John Hardman Lyon
Occupation: Coal Merchant
Father: Benjamin Lyon
Father's Occupation: Coal Merchant
Marriage Date:15 Sep 1847
Age:27y
Record Group:Part 1 - 1. Ref ID:item 2 p 199
Spouse's Forenames:Charlotte Surname: Hamilton
Spouse's Age: 23y
Spouse's Father's Name: Frederick Hamilton
Parish:St. John the Baptist. City / Town:Chester. County:Cheshire

Apologies, got Hardman'Holden mixed up! However, don't dismiss it, just about possible it is the same family, given the inaccuracies of the time. I am guessing from what you say that this is where you have got to also.
Jan