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mgnv
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21 Jun 2012 06:50 |
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Actually, it's more complex than that. The family would be in Halifax 1844 (pre-famine), go to Beauharnois to be there in Jan 1852:
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e092/e002297214.pdf http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e092/e002297215.pdf http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e092/e002297216.pdf [page d is blank - h/h continues on next page a on the image] http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e092/e002297217.pdf http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e092/e002297218.pdf
However, the 3 wee Dunphy girls do just seem to be parked there, with no other Dunphy in the h/h. Well, I can see that - if they're orphaned, they'ld go to whatever family would look after them - although 1000km away does seem a bit far. But then, I don't see why Cath would go back to Halifax (to meet hubby, and have Albert).
St Malachy is, I think, St-Malachie d'Ormstown, so this is 60 km overland to Montreal, or 20km to the St Lawrence at Salaberry-de-Valleyfield, then a 60km boat trip to Montreal. From Montreal, it's abt 1000km by sea to Halifax. Incidentally, the 1852 census says the 3 girls' pob=Canada, but we want their pob=NS. (Until the Dominion of Canada was formed in 1867, Nova Scotia and the United Province of Canada (=ON+QC) were seperate colonies, and I don't see a resident of either being confused about that.)
For NS BMDs, see http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/ especially https://www.novascotiagenealogy.com/ (I don't see anything).
The other place they might be is in the regimental BMD records with the GRO. (You need someone with FMP to check the index.)
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Michelle
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20 Jun 2012 20:04 |
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Thanks mgnv - so helpful! Like you, I'm not sure whether they'd be in Beauharnois if born in Halifax NS - I'm assuming travel was difficult in those times. But working on the assumption that they maybe came over from Ireland (dates seem to tie in with the potato famine), maybe it didn't seem as far as they'd already travelled? I wonder if they'd have been following the promise of work..
Since you know about Canada, would you know how I could get hold of a wedding certificate from 1864? I'm thinking it would be in Nova Scotia.
Thanks again for all the help!
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mgnv
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20 Jun 2012 19:21 |
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Margee - I did say JUST ABOUT OPPOSITE Cornwall. I know Lancaster (24km to E) would be more accurate, but who could find that on a map!!
Michelle - try http://maps.google.com/ There's a list of towns in Beauharnois Co at http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/census-1851/001005-200.04-e.html#a
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Michelle
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20 Jun 2012 16:14 |
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Thanks mgnv - really grateful as I don't have access to the Canadian census, it's all a bit new to me! Will take a look. Also don't know Canadian geography (my bad!) so will need to get hold of a decent map! Thanks too Margee for the update!
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MargaretM
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20 Jun 2012 14:11 |
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Oh, mgnv, you're always correcting me so I'm going to reverse it.
Beauharnois opposite Cornwall? I live in Cornwall. Opposite to us, across the mighty St. Lawrence is Massena, New York. Beauharnois is to the east, closer to Montreal.
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mgnv
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20 Jun 2012 11:52 |
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Of the Quebec counties, Beauharnois is the most upstream on the St Lawrence (just abt opposite Cornwall Ont and 100km from Montreal). I just don't see what someone born in Halifax (see 1881) would be doing there at that time.
I think she'll be on the 1851 & 1861 NS census for Halifax - unfortunately these only name the head of household. She'ld be there just as a count as a female under 10y, or 15-20.
Here are the Halifax Dunphy h/h's in 1861 Richard http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00115.pdf John http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00232.pdf Margaret http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00308.pdf Charles http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108866_00213.pdf
You'll need to check the subsequent pages - e.g., for Richard you'll want: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00115.pdf http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00116.pdf http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00117.pdf http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00118.pdf http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/pdf/4108859_00119.pdf
If you want to search 1871 to see who's gone: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/census-1871/001101-100.01-e.php
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Michelle
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19 Jun 2012 22:34 |
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Thanks so much to you both - very interesting! So grateful for you help, I really appreciate it!
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patchem
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19 Jun 2012 21:26 |
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Following on from MarieCeleste's 1851 Canada census, there is this Pat Dunphy at the bottom of the next page of the census, age slightly out, and claims single, for consideration: 1851 Census of Canada East, Canada West, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia about Pat Dunphy Name: Pat Dunphy Gender: Male Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807 Birthplace: Ireland Province: Canada East (Quebec) District: Beauharnois County District Number: 1 Sub-District: St Malachy Sub-District Number: 16 Pat Dunphy 45 Source Citation: Year: 1851; Census Place: St Malachy, Beauharnois County, Canada East (Quebec); Schedule: A; Roll: C_1113; Page: 43; Line: 50.
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MarieCeleste
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19 Jun 2012 19:16 |
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If it helps, here is some further info on John's military postings:
From 1858 to 1862 he was various places in England and Ireland, then 08/01/1862 - Halifax, NS 10/06/1866 - Montreal 14/07/1866 - Toronto 28/05/1868 - Dublin From 1868 to demob he was various places in England, Ireland and Wales.
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Michelle
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19 Jun 2012 16:28 |
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Thanks for all this!!
Patchem - you're spot on, it's John Gold(s)worth Smith (how could I have forgotten to put his surname on!!) and I can confirm that the info you found is right.
Sadly I don't have their wedding certificate but do have the birth certificate for their son Goldsworth Albert in 1865, Halifax Nova Scotia so have always assumed the wedding took place in Nova Scotia. I am particularly interested in anything from Canada about Catherine as all I know is her DOB and POB from the son's certificate.
MarieCeleste - thanks for the stuff from the Canada Census - I'll take a look into that as they may well give me more clues. The surname Dunphy is, as far as I know, Irish so one of your leads in particular looks exciting.
She called her daughter Mary Kentville, which is unusual but I've heard it's a place in Nova Scotia so I've been wondering whether she has any ties there.
Thanks again for your help - I really appreciate it!!
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MarieCeleste
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18 Jun 2012 20:04 |
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Possible:
British Army Service Records 1760-1915 First name(s): John Last name: SMITH Calculated year of birth: 1840 Parish of birth: St Paul Town of birth: Norwich County of birth: Norfolk Age at attestation: 18 years Attestation date: 6 October 1858 Attestation corps: Attestation soldier number: Discharge rank: Serjt Discharge corps: 2nd 17th Reg Of Foot Discharge soldier number: 605
The National Archives reference: WO97 / 2106 / 115
In parts of the records he's referred to as John G Smith. On discharge 1882 he was going to be a shoemaker in Leicester. Amongst other places, he was in Canada from 1862 to 1866.
No mention of spouse or family.
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patchem
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18 Jun 2012 20:00 |
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Still Smith: John G Smith Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840 Gender: Male Where born: Norwich, Norfolk, England Civil parish: Cheriton County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration district: Elham Sub-registration district: Folkestone ED, institution, or vessel: Second Battalion 17th Regiment of Foot, Camp Shorncliffe Household schedule number: 1 Piece: 552 Folio: 120 Page Number: 2
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patchem
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18 Jun 2012 19:56 |
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Michelle, Is his surname Smith or Goldworth? Thanks
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patchem
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18 Jun 2012 19:51 |
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?? 1871 England Census Name: Mary K Smith Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Daughter Gender: Female Where born: Canada Civil parish: Aldershot County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Registration district: Farnham Sub-registration district: Frimley ED, institution, or vessel: 2nd Battalion 17th Regiment and Depot 1st Battalion 17th Regiment Household schedule number: 1 Piece: 818 Folio: 25 Page Number: 3
John G Smith 31 Goldworttle Smith 6 son Nova Scotia Mary K Smith 3 George A Smith 1 Jersey
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patchem
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18 Jun 2012 19:47 |
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1891 England Census John G Smith Age: 51 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Catharine Smith Gender: Male Where born: Norwich, Norfolk, England Civil parish: St Michael at Coslany Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael at Coslany County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Occupation: manager shoe factory Registration district: Norwich Sub-registration district: Coslany ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Piece: 1518 Folio: 122 Page Number: 17 John G Smith 51 Catharine Smith 48 Nova Scotia Mary K Smith 23 Canada Frances S Smith 18 Plymouth Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1518; Folio: 122; Page: 17; GSU roll: 6096628.
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MarieCeleste
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18 Jun 2012 19:44 |
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1861 Census of Canada Name: Cathrin Dunphy Gender: Female Age: 18 Birth Year: 1843 Birthplace: Lower Canada Marital Status: Single Home in 1861: Châteauguay, Canada East Religion: Roman Catholic
Household Members: Name Age Cathrin Dunphy
She's with Patrick Dunphy 60 b Ireland, Bridget ?? 60 b Ireland and May age 16.
(I've no idea if these census are the right person).
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patchem
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18 Jun 2012 19:41 |
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?? 1881 England Census Catherine Smith Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: John Goldworth Smith Gender: Female Where born: Halifax Nova Sctia Civil parish: Worcester St Peter County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Street Address: Cherry Orchard Condition as to marriage: Married Registration district: Worcester Sub-registration district: South Worcester ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Piece: 2918 Folio: 8 Page Number: 9 John Goldworth Smith 41 Staff Sergeant Norwich St Pauls Catherine Smith 37 Mary Kentville Smith 13 Toronto George Arthur Smith 11 Jersey Frances Sarah Smith 7 Plymouth Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2918; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 1341699.
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MarieCeleste
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18 Jun 2012 19:34 |
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1851 Census of Canada East, Canada West, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia Name: Cathrin Dunphy Gender: Female Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845 Birthplace: Canada Province: Canada East (Quebec) District: Beauharnois County District Number: 1 Sub-District: St Malachy Sub-District Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age Cathrin Dunphy 7 She's with Mary 4, Eliza 2 (ages are next birthday).
There doesn't appear to be any adults in the household?
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patchem
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18 Jun 2012 19:32 |
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Have you got her marriage certificate for further information?
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MarieCeleste
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18 Jun 2012 19:31 |
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Hello Michelle, what sort of information are you looking for, and what do you already have?
We don't want to duplicate your own research. :-)
Did she marry in Canada?
Can you tell us any more about John Goldsworth (where & when born, etc)? Sometimes things like his army records might give us info about spouse & children.
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