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Hi,
I am hoping someone can help me with a problem,I have William Dunbar born 1754 and the son of Alexander Dunbar and Helen Pringle,Alexander and Helen married in Prestonkirk,South Lothian 19/05/1751.Now part of my problem is that some of my Contacts have a William Dunbar born 1759 Haddington South Lothian and his parents are Alexander Dunbar and Rachel Galloway.The biggest problem I have is that we all have the William's married to the same woman Catherine Patterson.William and Catherine were married twice once in Edinburgh 03/06/1785 they had to pay a fine for that marriage the next marriage was in Haddington o4/12/1785,there are no parents names on their Church records,I cannot find a marriage for the other William or for his parents,so you can see my problem.So I hope someone can help clear up the confusion over these Williams.
Kind regards
Grace

Hi
I have Pattersons in Haddington (EAST Lothian), but not your family I'm afraid.

William and Catherine's children seem to have been Alexander, Agnes, Elizabeth, Jean and William, confirming his father was Alexander but not much use for his mother's name :-(
The only reference I can find to Rachel Galloway is the birth of Archibald Dunbar in 1757 to her and Alexander Dunbar. No sign of a William.

A search on ScotlandsPeople shows one William Dunbar born between 1750 and 1760, father Alexander Dunbar, mother Pringle. It turns up nothing for mother's name Galloway.

If you buy some credits for ScotlandsPeople you can explore for yourself.

Hi Grace,
I also did a search on SP but I manipulated the ifo to get these results
Between 1740 and 1761, births of 6 children are recorded in East Lothian with a father called Alexander Dunbar
They can be separated into two families:
1) ALEXANDER DUNBAR + PRINGLE:

ROBERT DUNBAR b 1 Sep 1752 Whittinghame, East Lothian
WILLIAM DUNBAR b 1754 Whittinghame, East Lothian
CATHRINE DUNBAR b 1 Feb 1756 Whittingham, East Lothian
FRANCIS DUNBAR b 31 Aug 1760 in Prestonkirk, East Lothian
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) ALEXANDER DUNBAR WITH GALWAY:

KATHRINE DUNBAR b 12 May 1754 Haddington, East Lothian
ARCHIBALD DUNBAR b 13 Mar 1757, Haddington, East Lothian.


I am guessing that the other researchers found info on one or both children of the Dunbar/Galway marriage, then ran a search on SP for other Dunbars born in East Lothian in the time period.My inkling is that they looked ONLY for a father called Alexander but did NOT check that they all had the same mother.
Interesting that both couples have 1 daughter and both are called Cathrine/Kathrine born 2 yrs apart.... I think THIS is where other got mixed up, and I am pretty sure that you have the correct parents as there is no record of a William born within the Dunbar/ Galway/Galloway marriage.

Regards
Anne

Anne

Grace,
As an afterthought, I looked at births in East Lothian after 1761.
Two more Dunbar/ Pringle children
Alexander 1764 and Elizabeth 1767, both born Prestonkirk.

I found no more children born to the other couple, anywhere in scotland

Are you sure it was 2 marriages ,and not Banns,then Marriage ,one living in Haddington,the other in Edinburgh ? Have you the Bapts record for first born ,from Scotlandspeople .May have other info .

Ellieathome

Grace,
it was usual for the marriage banns to be read in the home parishes of both the bride and the groom, but very rarely are these dated 6 months apart.

When you find a marriage details on an OPR, the date normally refers to when the banns were read.... it does not mean that they married on that date
Occasionally, the actual record is annotated with the marriage date, but not always. We just have to assume that the union took place shortly afterwards

Payed a fine?
Probably stemmed from the fact that the banns were read in Edinburgh in Jun 1785 and the marriage did not take place within a short time afterwards.

Anne

They paid for the Banns being read.

Ellieathome

I think that elieathome is right and the payment referred to the Banns.

Only once, have I ever found that the "same" couple married twice.
The marriges took place many years apart , and in completely different areas of Scotland
After extensive research, I discovered that after having all of their children, they moved away and became members of a different denomination.

Their new church did not recognise the forms under which they were originally married, and they were required to remarry under the forms of their new denomination. All of their children were also baptised for a 2nd time (together).
No wonder so many researchers were confused!

Anne

Have you any of Williams decendants with middle names that could help?

Ellieathoma

This could be Alexander's sister marrid to Robert Scott
Name: Alexander Scott
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 17 Jan 1794
Baptism/Christening Place: , HADDINGTON, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 04 Jan 1794
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Robert Scott
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Catherine Dunbar
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11709-8
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067848
Reference Number: 2:15R3KS2

spouse: Catherine Dunbar


groom's name: Robert Scott
bride's name: Catherine Dunbar
marriage date: 07 Nov 1790
marriage place: Haddington,East Lothian,Scotland
indexing project (batch) number: M11709-8
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 1067848

Submitted entry
Cathrine Dunbar
01 FEB 1756 Whittingehame, East Lothian, Scotland
Father: Alexander Dunbar Family
Mother: Helen Pringle


Ellieathome
Edit -but this is from Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening
CATHRINE DUNBAR
01 FEB 1756 Whittingehame, East Lothian, Scotland
Father: ALEXANDER DUNBAR Family
Mother: HILEN PRINGLE

Hi ellieathome,
I also saw all the submitted entries but checked on SP to confirm.

All 6 Dunbar/Pringle births/baptisms listed above exist.
Robert, William, Francis, Cathrine, Alexander and Elizabeth are all found in the OPR search on SP.
Father Alexander. Mother Pringle

Anne

She's late getting married,but then if parents moved about .

Elllieathome

spouse: James Burn


groom's name: James Burn
bride's name: Elizabeth Dunbar
marriage date: 02 Nov 1787
marriage place: Prestonkirk,East Lothian,Scotland
indexing project (batch) number: M11717-2
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 1067854

Name: Helen Burn
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 16 May 1790
Baptism/Christening Place: , PRESTONKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 08 May 1790
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Burn
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Dunbar
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11717-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067854
Reference Number: 2:15SMMXJ
---------------------
Name: William Burn
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 19 Oct 1788
Baptism/Christening Place: , PRESTONKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 15 Oct 1788
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Burn
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Dunbar
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11717-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067854
Reference Number: 2:15SML0K
------------------------------
Name: Elisabeth Burn
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 27 Apr 1800
Baptism/Christening Place: , PRESTONKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 05 Apr 1800
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Burn
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elisabeth Dunbar
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11717-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067854
Reference Number: 2:15SN161
--------------------------
Name: Margaret Burn
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 31 Jan 1796
Baptism/Christening Place: , PRESTONKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 22 Jan 1796
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Burn
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elisabeth Dunbar
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11717-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067854
Reference Number: 2:15SMTMP
--------------------------
Name: Agnes Burn
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 22 Apr 1798
Baptism/Christening Place: , PRESTONKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 04 Apr 1798
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Burn
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elisabeth Dunbar
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11717-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067854
Reference Number: 2:15SMXG6
--------------------------
Name: Alexander Burn
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Feb 1793
Baptism/Christening Place: , PRESTONKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 02 Feb 1793
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Burn
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elisabeth Dunbar
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11717-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067854
Reference Number: 2:15SMR0F
--------------------------



Ellieathome

That's fine for me .All issue of Alexander Dunbar and Helen Priingle


Ellieathome

Edit -No Archibalds Dunbars being born

Thank you all so much and a special thank you to Anne.
Kind regards
Grace

Hi Grace,
I was thinking about this again, and think I understand why everyone has the wrong parents for William.
It is because he married in Haddington.
The other researchers found the births of the other Dunbar family in Haddington and assumed that this William must be part of it.
If any other researcher actually obtained his birth record from Whittinghame parish, they chose to ignore that the mother was called Helen Pringle.

I should also say that ellieathome has no doubt fount the correct info on youngest daughter from the Dunbar/ Pringle marriage
Elizabeth Dunbar.
Looks like she did indeed marry James Burn 2 Nov 1787 in Prestonkirk
The children found also follow the correct naming pattern
ie 1st daughter is called Helen and 2nd son is called Alexander.

Good luck

Anne