Find Ancestors

Lorraine - Located through Google a John Walmsley died 2010 age 78y he was a Bookie associated with BelVue stadium Manchester he has a son Andrew who did charity runs -- could this be the Walmsley you spoke of ?

Lots of John Walmsley'sborn 1934 /33 anyone know of him or know anything about him ???

Mavis

There is no excuse my massive paragraphs are auful.. i write how i talk.. chatterbox :/

There is no excuse my massive paragraphs are auful.. i write how i talk.. chatterbox :/

No its not easy to find, ive being trying to locate or find out about what happened to Irene for many years, and no joy and this is purely because me and my sister have been protected by all family to the truth of what happened.
Ive been trying for many years,on and off I must say purely due to the fact ive been told bluntly to stop. I need to find this Val i think, although done know where she lives her sir name or anything..

No its not easy to find, ive being trying to locate or find out about what happened to Irene for many years, and no joy and this is purely because me and my sister have been protected by all family to the truth of what happened.
Ive been trying for many years,on and off I must say purely due to the fact ive been told bluntly to stop. I need to find this Val i think, although done know where she lives her sir name or anything..

Sorry :/ I did think that, but was typing quickly .. I tend to spill out what im thinking as im touch typing,.. If i was writing i would put into paragraphs, but as im typing, I get a bit lazy. Plus I have M.E so try to get things down quickly because if i dont,il forget and nothing will go down... so apologies for the typing.

Hi Lorraine


Can I suggest that you break up your narrative into paragraphs? It will make it easier to understand

x

So you know Irene was alive 30 years ago is that correct?

Can't find relevant marriage for William Woodall born Jan 1901 or daughter's birth.
It should be easy for you to find her and have a chat.

Good Luck.

Maryb.

Hi Mavis,
Thats the correct family for Caroline., and the ones I have on my tree and confirmed by relatives.. Thank you so much for following and helping, it means loads as all of this is shunned by my own family. Im looking at the birth certificate now.. 1917 subdistrict RUSHOLME, county of Manchester,CB Twentieth April 1917 No 20 Park Grove Levenshulme.. name of child born Irene, father WIlliam Nelson Fletcher mother Caroline Fletcher formerly Woodall. occupation of father Mechanical Engineer. W.N Fletcher father 20 park grove Levenshulme.
This is all on the birth certificate, so im sure i have the correct certificate, purely because of carolines maiden name and married name, and name of child.. too much for it not to be her... but it definately says Nelson.. and on the initialed name its W.N.Fletcher.
At my Auntie Brendas funeral last week, who was a cousin to my mum.. or should i say her mum Annie ..was Carolines sister, .. I didnt go to the wake, and dearly dearly wish i had.. after years of searching and searching 30 years or so of it... at the wake an elderly lady called Val spoke to my sister, her father was William Woodall, Carolines brother... Val said, are you Maureens daughter to my sister.. and my sister debbie said she was, she then said, one day we will have to get together, she told her she remembered Carrie (Caroline) and Maureen, and then said there were skeletons in the cupboard!! .. as my sister is not interested in finding out about our past or what happened to Irene, she didnt further the conversation, my sister is very much that she would respect family wishes and let this lie.. and i respect her for that.. im more inquisitive, and feel a deep urge to know, i always have, i feel alot of grief that, when i was searching in my 20,s Irene WAS actually still alive, breathing, thinking... I could have met her, seen her.. maybe.. but because of the brick walls family has put in my way at every hurdle,its been almost impossibe.. Now my auntie has passed away, im searching again, ... I somehow believe that the money left was secretly left to my mother from Irene, which is heartbreaking if that is the case... mum tells me to shut up if i mention Irene, or if i ask to see mums birth cert... she gets quite nasty... so i just wont approach it.. my mum is now 76. If i find out anything, id never disclose to mum, i feel she wants this part of her life buried too. If she wanted to know she would ask me, shes a clever and talented lady.. I wish i had gone to the wake, but didnt it was too much and brought back memories of my fathers funeral. I need to find Val somehow, because I feel she knows, .. Ernest Harrison didnt have any sons.. I believe Caroline his first wife. although they did have a family friend called Jim Walmsley,.. who caroline and Ernest desperately wanted mum to marry.. My mum back then was so very beautiful she used to sing on the stage and play piano.. anyway.. Jim walmsley as i remember owned a dogs racing stadium i think in Sale Manchester.. i saw him around three years ago, he had done a charity run with his son, i saw this on the internet and was going to write to him, but this was around the time, my Auntie Brenda told me to stay away from this and leave it alone.. so i did.. looking in my family tree on Carolines side, her mother was a walmsley.. maria walmsley and her mother was Ellen Walmsley.. was Jim a relative? .. I believe because Jim was a close friend of Caroline and Ernest he would know the answer also.. and hes around the same age as my mum.. If Irene had , had an affair with a married man in the family, I know dad would have told me when id asked, because dad was broad minded like me.. for it to be blocked out, and for dad to say please just concentrate on his side of the family.. it has to be more than that... dad wouldnt be ashamed or protect us from that, if Irene had, had an affair with a married man.. my dad had an affair with a married woman, and left mum for her.. so i dont think dad would hide that from me.. I look at every angle.. I remember mum had one small photograph of irene, when i was a little girl mum said " look this is Irene my real mum" I believe Caroline had sneaked it to her... she was in fine clothes beautifully dressed, she had red hair and so pretty.. I have inherited some of that auburn, or strawberry blonde.. that she had, ..... x

Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
FLETCHER Caroline HARRISON Ernest Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/345/164
HARRISON Ernest FLETCHER Caroline Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/345/164
HARRISON Ernest WOODALL Caroline Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/345/164
WOODALL Caroline HARRISON Ernest Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/345/164

It was William N Fletcher when you view original,so it is a mistake by the transcribers.

Caroline's marriage to Ernest should say if she was a widow or not.
Did Ernest have any sons?
Maybe Irene just had an affair with a married man,one of the family for instance.

Maryb

Lorraine -- been following your story with interest , the Caroline Woodall I located 1911 ceusus was born 1894 parents John 49y and Marie 45y family
Martha Ellen 23y
John James20y
Annie 19y
Caroline 17y
Harold 14y
Frances dau 12y
William 10y
Sydney 5y

! Tiverton Grove- Ardwick- Chorlton John born Stalybridge the rest Ardwick


I noted that when Caroline married it was to a William M Fletcher not N .
do you have a copy of Irene birth cert to know for sure that he was William Nelson Fletcher


If we could get the right family for Caroline then perhaps trace down relatives who may know the story.

do you think that the money left to your mother was connected to Irene ?

Mavis

I dont wish to scare anyone with the portrayal of my mother, but believe when she found out that who she thought was her mother and father were not actually her parents she became very depressed and subsequently this had a dire effect on her.. thus my father trying to find out where Irene wasand what had happpened. maybe it was the shame of having a baby in that era, but why in 2012 could no one tell me the secret, surely it cant be that bad, there's nothing that i Icouldnt handle, after being brought up by a suicidal mother! This has had no effect on me, probably made me stronger and a profoundly loving mother to my girls to make up for everything i never had. The only story that my Auntie Brenda would tell me and she only told it me once, maybe to try to put my mind at rest I think, was that she remembers Irene taking mum for a swing, so believes Irene was still around on the scene when mym was around 18 months old.. somehow i dont believe this story, because ive been told curtly and boldly not to further this line in the family.. why would i then be given this snippet of information, only to try to throw me maybe.
I believe Caroline woodall was born 1895 had a sister Annie, Bill and a few others.
Around or between 2000 and 2004 mum was left a considerable amount of money from an unknown.. A solicitor had tried to search for mum ..mum wouldnt divuldge any information, and has remained secretive, never talks about her real mother, and wont talk to me about any of the past, which i have to accept... But still hard for me, as i feel i need to know.
Lorraine Fletcher

Irene was born Levenshulme 1917 20 park grove to caroline fletcher nee woodall.. and william fletcher.
maureen fletcher was born june 19th 1936 heywood in a work house.

when my mother became poorly my dad and a mental health doctor, contacted salvation army.. it was nipped in the bud.. they did find her.. but hushed up again.. ive asked my dad although he passed away two years ago.. and dad told me just to concentrate on his side of the family. what did william or irene do ..apparently caroline grieved badly for irene, Ernest would not allow her to see or even speak of her... they were quite well off, and mum was brought up very well indeed. I feel so sorry for Irene. maybe she murdered Bill Fletcher.. although if she had of done, would Caroline of married again ? or did Bill leave years before... and maybe Irene just went off the rails... but i very much doubt it.. my dad was very broad minded as i am, so to protect me and my sister until their death and take it to the grave.. it must be something pretty bad... x

This is what i think. if william did die 1923.. although couldnt have been because Irene wasnt born until 1917 i have her birth certificate.. Irene gave birth to Maureen my mother 1936.. Caroline ..Irenes mum parted from william fletcher and married Ernest Harrison.. i know he was very strict, he fought in the indian war or japanese i forget which.. I remember visiting caroline and ernest my (granny and grandad as i called them) at no 8 carlton road sale.. i knew nothing of william then.. but as time went by mum found out she was adopted by her gran and grandad...people she thought were her real parents.. she became very ill..through shock, and tried to kill herself.. sorry about this info not very nice... but anyway ..mental health doctors tried to find my mums mum.. and try and find out who mums father was.... there is no father on my mothers birth certificate..its unknown... bill was never to be seen again.. and Irene was never allowed to be spokenof... I did ask my Auntie Brenda a few years ago.. a lovely dear lady, who turned quite bitter and angry when i asked her.. and i was told bluntly never to proceed with this further and it should be left alone.. of cause this made me want to find out more... i feel a need to know .. i would have loved to have met Irene.. as no matter what she is part of who i am.. i need to know . I thank everyone for the help means so much... deep down i believe it was incest or Irene may have been a prostitute maybe.. I dearly hope not.. id love to visit her grave and give her flowers and tell her ive found her at last. Lorraine x

If that death was Caroline's husband William ...... then surely Garstang is quite a way from Manchester, where the family seems to be based.


Or could it be plain and simple ....................... having a baby illegitimately was seen by some people as very bad, and casting a bad light on the family. Ernest might have been a very strict man, and/or very religious.


Thinking the worst, could it be something like incest, Caroline left William, but Irene was blamed??




sylvia

Death maybe William Fletcher born @ 1894 died 1923 Garstang Lancs.
It was unusual for people to divorce in those days as they couldn't afford to,so maybe he did die.

Maryb.

Thank you everyone.. im wondering if Irene maybe did get married.. I know that she gave birth to mum in Heywood at a work factory, maybe she stayed there and married. Yes thats the William Nelson Fletcher 1894.. I wonder what happened to him.. i wonder why he and Caroline divorced and why Ernest wouldnt allow Irene to visit her mum Caroline, or her daughter Maureen, there must have been a reason.. My Auntie Brenda who has just passed away,. told me i must leave it and not research, and what i dont know doesnt matter.. my father wouldnt tell me either. Id love to find out more of the facts. I certainly have more to go on.. love and thanks to everyone helping me. Lorraine Fletcher

Possible marriage for Irene

Marriages Jan-Mar 1949
Fletcher Irene Heywood 10c 833
Molyneux William J Heywood 10c 833

Jackie

Theres two possible births, the Notts guy shoots off to Canada in the earky 1920s


Births Jun 1894
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fletcher William Nelson Prestwich 8d 359


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1897
Fletcher William Nelson Nottingham 7b 379