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Am trying to find any relatives of my paternal grandmother Margaret Higgins from County Armagh, Ireland who was born c. 1890. She married a Robert Bell and they had 3 children Rita, Bob and Helen. Margaret Higgins then had another child Colin born in Whitley Bay near Durham. If there is any knowledge of the family, please contact me Sue :-)

Hi Susan - have you done a Search Trees to find any possible matches? You can then contact any tree owners.

(By the way, those of us who live in Whitley Bay wouldn't say it's near Durham!) ;-)

Do you know if she married in Ireland or England?

Might she have married in Scotland and could Rita be short for Henrietta?

(There's a tree in Ancestry with some similarities)

Hi MarieCeleste, Is Tyne and Wear a better location to state rather than Durham? As to my family, the details I have are very sketchy I am afraid. I know that my grandmother was from Ireland and that her family were quite political. From what I gather her husband, Robert Bell, was maybe lost in the war, but not certain. She then met up with Colin's father and at that time he was a travelling salesman. For whatever reason they didn't get married and when Colin was quite young they went back to Belfast for some years. Rita is the eldest of her children, who had a son called Harry Patterson (author Jack Higgins) who was born in 1929. Bob married a German lady and Helen died relatively young. Colin was born Whitley Bay 14 March 1930. For whatever reason it is thought that Colin's father may have had reasons not to use his own name, so it is dificult finding links when you are not certian of someones name. Some skeletons in the cupboard I think Sue

Yes - Tyne & Wear will do fine (in those days it was Northumberland).

This looks like Margaret in 1901:

1901 Scotland Census
Name: Margaret Higgins
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's Name: Henry Higgins
Mother's Name: Ellen J Higgins
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration number: 812
Registration district: Annan
Civil parish: Annan
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Alexandra Place
Occupation: Schoolar

ED: 4
Household schedule number: 73
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1901_427

Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Higgins 48 < Manager Satmeel manufacturors, born Ireland.
Ellen J Higgins 50
Henry Higgins 10
Thomas W Higgins 8
Eliza W Higgins 19
Ellen J Higgins 17
Margaret Higgins 13
Ann W Higgins 5

The tree on Ancestry is the same family as yours, but it doesn't have all of her children.

EDIT: Henry's work was in the Oatmeal business from other info I've seen.

Thanks so much for that. I am getting quite excited, I have not done that much with my tree of late and am a bit rusty with it. Please can you explain what you mean when you say the tree on Ancestry is the same family as mine. Sue

Sue - somebody who is a member of Ancestry.co.uk is also researching the same family as you. I've just been having a look at their family tree (which they have made public). The only child they have listed for Margaret is Henrietta Higgins Bell who married Henry Patterson in 1929, registered Tynemouth (which covers Whitley Bay).

Check your inbox on here - I'm sending you a copy of Margaret & Robert's marriage certificate.

(PS - do you want to delete two of your triplicate entries above?)

Robert and his family in 1901 (verified by marriage certificate)

1901 Scotland Census about Robert Bell
Name: Robert Bell
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Ralph Bell
Mother's Name: Elizabth Bell
Gender: Male
Where born: Annan, dumfriesshire
Registration number: 812
Registration district: Annan
Civil parish: Annan
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Downies Wynd 9
Occupation: Hairdresser - Apprentice

ED: 1
Household schedule number: 70
Line: 18
Roll: CSSCT1901_427

Household Members:
Name Age
Ralph Bell 49 << Shoemaker
Elizabth Bell 42
Robert Bell 16
Jane Bell 14
Lizzie Bell 12
Janet Bell 11
Mary E Bell 8
Ralph Bell 5
Kate Bell 2

When you say Robert Bell was maybe lost in the war, do you mean WW1 ?

Hi MC, Yes WW1. Very interesting about the member of Ancestry.co.uk as when Rita got married for the first time she did marry a Patterson and had one child Harry who was born 1929 in Northern England. Did not receive a copy of marriage certificate Sue

MC, have deleted two entries put on by mistake as have probs with my internet Sue :-D

Sue - I doubt it's your internet, Genes site often runs very slowly and if you hit the submit button more than once it adds several posts!

Have sent the marriage record again, but here's what it says, just in case:

Married, after banns in the Established Church of Scotland, on 17th September 1907.

Robert Bell, age 22, a hairdresser, bachelor. Lived 9 Downies?? Wynd, Annan.
Parents: Ralph Bell (Shoemaker) and Elizabeth Anderson?? Bell nee Burnett.

Margaret Higgins, spinster, age 19. Lived 4 Alexandra?? Place, Annan.
Parents: Henry Higgins, a Sales?? and Helen Jane Higgins nee Fry

The witnesses were Henry Higgins and Elizabeth Bell.

(Where I've put ?? after a word it's because it wasn't clear on the document).

This appears to be the marriage of Margaret's parents:

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
Name: Ellen Jane Fry
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1879
Registration district: Belfast
Volume: 1
Page: 284 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

Name: Henry Higgins
Registration district: Belfast
Volume: 1
Page: 284 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

Haven't a clue how he came to be here, but this is apparently Margaret's father in 1911:


1911 census transcription details for:

Cumberland Infirmary, CUMBERLAND INFIRMARY, PORT ROAD

Reg. District: Carlisle
Sub District: St Mary
Parish: Carlisle
Enum. District: 16

Address: Port Road Carlisle County: Cumberland

HIGGINS, Henry Patient Married M 56 1855 Miller Oatmeal Kilkeel Ireland

Looks like Robert and Margaret had moved to Tyneside by 1911:

BELL, Robert Head Married M 25 1886 Hairdresser Dumfriesshire Annan Resident
BELL, Margaret Wife Married 4 years F 23 1888 Co Armagh Sandsagee Resident
BELL, Henrietta H Daughter F 2 1909 Dumfriesshire Annan Resident
BELL, Ellen Jane W Daughter F 0 (6 MONTHS) 1911 Dumfriesshire Annan Resident

Registration District: Newcastle upon Tyne
Sub District: All Saints
Enumeration District: 11
Parish: All Saints

Address: 55 Breamish Street Newcastle on Tyne County: Northumberland

There had been no other children born at that time.

I'm not finding a military record for Robert Bell born 1885 in Annan, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't one as loads were destroyed.

Not seeing anything on the Commonwealth War Graves site, either.

There are numerous deaths registered in BMDs for Robert Bell so it would be well nigh impossible to pinpoint which would be his.

Sue, here are some useful sites for you:

FreeBMD for searching records http://www.freebmd.org.uk

GRO for ordering certificates http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Scotland's People for Scottish records http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (is pay per view but credits are quite reasonable)

FamilySearch (the Mormon site) https://www.familysearch.org

Mundia http://www.mundia.com
Mundia is a spin-off from Ancestry where you can search and view people's trees. Unlike Ancestry, it's free to register.
If you go on the site and use the "Find People" on the menu, you could then put Henrietta Higgins Bell , birth year 1908, and it will take you to the tree I mentioned.

Henry Higgins married Ellen Jane Fry 11th May 1879 St. Anne's C.O.I. Belfast

Both their father's 1st names are Henry

Name: John Fry Higgins
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 17 Mar 1880
Birth Place: Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Father's Name: Henry Higgins
Mother's Name: Ellen Higgins Fry

Occupants of grave I 90, City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension
Forename(s) Surname Age Date of death Date of burial
Ellen Jane Higgins 78 Years 12 December 1931 14 December 1931
Evelyn Higgins 5 Weeks 23 March 1919 25 March 1919
Henry Higgins 84 Years 27 September 1938 30 September 1938

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialrecords/search.asp

Thomas Higgins married Elizabeth Rae 3rd July 1917 Belfast Registry office

Thomas father Henry

Evelyn Higgins born 1919 father Thomas Wilkinson Higgins, mother elizabeth Rae

Elizabeth Higgins born 1920 to the same parents