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Charmain, there a few questions that you haven't yet answered.

Have you got the marriage cert of Emma, and if so who does she name as her father, and what is his occupation. Names of witnesses might be useful too.

You really must get this marriage cert, otherwise we could be making mistakes in our assumptions.

What is the father's occupation on the birth cert that you have?

Ernest worked in a corn millers. Managed to purchase a duplicate birth certificate for Emma Collis b 15/08/1896, from the General Register office, on-line GRO.

Burmmiejan asked earlier if you had Emma's marriage cert. Have you got it? Who does it say is her father?

Deaths Sep 1896
Collis Emma 26 Ashbourne 7b 347
.....................
As posted by Gins:
1871 census transcription details for: Dove Street, Ellastone
RG number: RG10 Piece: 3597 Folio: 58 Page: 11

Reg. District: Ashborne Sub District: Mayfield
COLLIS, George Head M 51 1820 Staffordshire
COLLIS, Sarah Wife F 44 1827 Staffordshire
COLLIS, Hannah Daughter F 25 1846 Staffordshire
COLLIS, Francis Son M 12 1859 Staffordshire
COLLIS, Alfred Son M 6 1865 Staffordshire
COLLIS, Sarah J Daughter F 4 1867 Staffordshire
COLLIS, William H Son M 0 1871 Staffordshire
>>>>COLLIS, Mary A Granddaughter F 5 1866 Staffordshire
......................
1881 census transcription details for: Dove Street, Ellastone (Stafford)
RG number: RG11 Piece: 3422 Folio: 92 Page: 10

Reg. District: Ashborne Sub District: Mayfield
COLLIS, Sarah Head Widow F 53 1828 Laundress
Abbotts Bromly
Staffordshire
COLLIS, William H Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Ellastone
Staffordshire
>>>COLLIS, Ernest G P Grand Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Ellastone
Staffordshire
......
Ernest remarries:
Marriages Dec 1898
Collis Ernest George Ashbourne 7b 1320
DOBSON Lizzie Ashbourne 7b 1320
..................
1901 census transcription details for: Dove Street, Ellastone (Stafford), Ellastone
RG number: RG13 Piece: 3238 Folio: 72 Page: 8

Reg. District: Ashborne Sub District: Mayfield
COLLIS, Sarah Head Widow F 73 1828
Abbotts Bromley
Staffordshire
COLLIS, Ernest Grand Son Married M 26 1875 Yard Labourer
Ellastone
Staffordshire
COLLIS, Lizzie Gr Wife Married F 30 1871
Uttoxeter
Staffordshire
COLLIS, Arthur G Gr Son Single M 8 1893
Cauldon
Staffordshire


Maureen

What occupation does Ernest George have?

How did you manage to obtain the birth cert of Emma within 2 days of posting on here?

Having puchased a birth certificate for Emma Collis brn 15/08/1896 place of birth Ellastone Rd, Stafford, It states her birth parents as, Father - Ernest Geroge Collis, Mother - Emma Collis (formerly Ratcliffe).

I have managed to find their marriage record which states they were married in 1893 (Jan/Fab/Mar) reg district Ashbourne, Derbyshire. Vol 7B Pg 783.

However, I am struggling to pin point them individually in both birth, death and census records etc???

It would appear that Emma was illegitimate


........... that Mary Ann and Thomas Griffin took her in as a baby, or very small child


............ that she then was known as Griffin ........ OR it was merely assumed by the enumerator that her surname was Griffin!


She then was put into service, under her real name of Collis


This makes it seem that she was the daughter of a close relation of Mary Ann ........................... a sister, or niece.


You will HAVE to buy that birth certificate to find out who is shown as her mother.


it will cost you £9.25 to find out the truth.




sylvia

re Mary Ann Collis


she is the daughter of Hannah Collis (written here as Anna)


from www.familysearch.org/


taken from the Parish Register

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Mary Ann Collis

Name: Mary Ann Collis
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 14 May 1866
Baptism/Christening Place: ELLASTONE,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Collis
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01010-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 426539
Reference Number:




sylvia

The 1891 census say Mary Ann Whieldon.

I think your best bet is to get that birth cert of Emma. It will tell you who her mother is, likely a sister of Mary Ann, or of Hannah's little sister Sarah.

Marriage of Hannah Collis:

Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Collis Hannah Ashbourne 7b 933
Heath Mary Ashborne 7b 933
Keeling Thomas Ashborne 7b 933
Whieldon Joseph Ashborne 7b 933

1881 Census

WHIELDON, Joseph Head Married M 46 1835 Ag Lab
Wootons
Staffordshire VIEW
WHIELDON, Hannah Wife Married F 34 1847 Labourers Wife
Ellastone
Staffordshire VIEW
WHIELDON, George F Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar
Ellastone
Staffordshire VIEW
WHIELDON, Lizzie Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Wootons
Staffordshire VIEW
WHIELDON, Trevor Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar
Wootons
Staffordshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
2749 Folio:
20 Page:
7 Registration District:
Uttoxeter

Civil Parish:
Croxden Municipal Borough:
Address:
Wootons, Croxden County:
Staffordshire

1891 surname must be mistranscribed (not looked at original yet).

Thanks for your help, what is now interesting is on the 1901 Census, my Great Granmother was listed as Emma Griffin, daughter of Mary & Thomas Griffin.

However, 10yrs later she is listed as Emma Collis (which is Mary Griffins, maiden name i.e. her mothers(?) maiden name. Despite records showing Mary Griffin only had one birth child, which I am pretty sure was Harold Bertram Griffin?

Can anyone unravel the mystery?

On the 1871 census Mary Ann is listed as Grandaughter to George and Sarah, so Hannah must be her mother.

When did Hannah marry Mr Whistance?

and on 1891 census

Address: Private House, Road, Leigh, Nobert

GRIFFIN, Thomas Head Married M 26 1865 Shoe Maker Bramshall Staffordshire
GRIFFIN, Mary A Wife Married F 25 1866 Ellastone Staffordshire
GRIFFIN, Harold B Son M 1 1890 Norbury Staffordshire
WHISTANCE, Hannah Mother In Law Widow F 44 1847 Living On Own Means Ellastone Staffordshire

1871 England Census
about Mary A Collis
Name: Mary A Collis
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Ellastone, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Ellastone
Ecclesiastical parish: Ellastone
Town: Ellastone
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ashborne
Sub-registration district: Mayfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 3597
Folio: 58
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
George Collis 51
Sarah Collis 44
Hannah Collis 25
Francis Collis 12
Alfred Collis 6
Sarah I Collis 4
William H Collis 10 Months
Mary A Collis 5 <<<<the girl that married Thomas Griffiin?

the Griffins on 1911 census

Address: Bramshall Uttoxeter

GRIFFIN, Thomas Head Married M 46 1865 Boot Maker Staff Bramshall
GRIFFIN, Mary Ann Wife Married 23 years F 45 1866 Staff Ellastone
GRIFFIN, Harold Bertram Son Single M 21 1890 Solicitors Clerk Staff Leigh

original states 1 child born to marriage, still living in 1911

She's with the Griffins, I think, in 1901:

GRIFFIN, Thomas Head Married M 36 1865 Shoemaker Bramshall Staffordshire
GRIFFIN, Mary Ann Wife Married F 34 1867 Ellastone Staffordshire
GRIFFIN, Harold Bertram Son Single M 11 1890 Leigh Staffordshire
GRIFFIN, Emma Daughter Single F 4 1897 Ellastone Staffordshire <<<
FOSTER, Joseph Boarder Single M 43 1858 Cowman On Farm Bramshall Staffordshire

Registration District: Uttoxeter
Civil Parish: Bramshall

Address: Leigh Road, Bramshall County: Staffordshire

Death for birthdate:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
Name: Emma Cotterill
Birth Date: 15 Aug 1896
Date of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1981
Age at Death: 84
Registration district: East Staffordshire
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 30
Page: 0853

This may be the couple that took her in


Marriages Jun 1889
-------------------------------------------

COLLIS Mary Ann Uttoxeter 6b 441 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Collis Mary Ann Uttoxeter 6b 441
Griffin Thomas Uttoxeter 6b 441 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

This is her birth isn't it - covers Ellastone, the boundaries are a bit blurry! The cert would give you more info.

Births Sep 1896 (>99%)
Collis Emma Ashborne 7b 668

Jan