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I'm pretty certain they would have put Widow, if she was widowed



It does however depend on what SHE told the Registrar.


It is unusual to see the father's name on there ....... usually the father of an illegitimate child did NOT have his name on the birth certificate.


He had to attend the Registrar with the mother of the child, and agree that he was the father.

Accepting publicly that he was the father of the child put various burdens on him ...... and prevented the mother from claiming Parish Relief ........... they would insist that the named father pay up.




sylvia

Just a update
I have Letitia"s birth cert now and are no nearer to finding out about her mother"s maiden name,
On the cert it says Mother Elizabeth Stoneham ...Single Woman
Father George Smith.
So has any one any ideas where to go from here?
I have tried just about every thing to find a marriage for Elizabeth Stoneham, is it possible that they would have put here down as a single woman if she was a widow
I have a feeling that this is a stone(ham) wall. if you will excuse the pun,
I am open to any suggestions

I think mother Elizabeth was NOT born a Stoneham.


If we can ever find the marriage .... I think you will find that she is shown as Widowed


OR else, she and Joseph Green did not marry legally, just lived together common-law.


So, Letitia's birth certificate could well answer all the questions.



I do note that on the 1841 Census, Elizabeth and Letitia are apparently living in the same house as John Smeed and his apparent wife Elizabeth, with a seeming daughter Eliza


Name: John Smeed
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England

Civil parish: Bexley
Hundred: Ruxley
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Bexley

John Smeed 55 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Smeed 55
Eliza Smeed 15

Address:- Chittey's Lane

Living next door is

Name Age
Margaret Smeed 85 Independent




I wonder if there is some familial connection?




sylvia

A further option to help clarify

Births Sep 1843 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GREEN Emma Dartford 5 89

Deaths Mar 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carver Elizabeth 90 Windsor 2c 431

Possibly the youngest Carver child's death

Deaths Mar 1841 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARVER Walter Dartford 5 68

Children of William and Elizabeth Carver..........from the free familysearch site

When you found Elizabeth's birth, did you check for siblings?


Name: Mary Carver
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 30 Apr 1826
Baptism/Christening Place: BEXLEY,KENT,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Carver
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13092-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 992672
Reference Number:
________________________

Name: George Carver
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 27 Jan 1828
Baptism/Christening Place: BEXLEY,KENT,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Carver
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13092-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 992672
__________________________

Name: Eliza Carver
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 16 Jan 1831
Baptism/Christening Place: BEXLEY,KENT,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Carver
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13092-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 992672
_____________________________


Name: William Carver
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 04 Jun 1837
Baptism/Christening Place: NORTH CRAY,KENT,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 01 May 1837
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Carver
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: J14758-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 1042461
__________________________

Name: Walter Carver
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 16 Sep 1839
Baptism/Christening Place: NORTH CRAY,KENT,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Carver
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: J14758-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 1042461

Merchant marriage I think is wrong, should have checked census before posting, sorry.

What do you think about this birth

Husband

WILLIAM STONEHAM Pedigree

Birth:
Christening:
Marriage:
Death:
Burial:



Wife

ELIZABETH Pedigree

Birth:
Christening:
Marriage:
Death:
Burial:



Children
1. ELIZABETH ANNE STONEHAM Pedigree
Female


Birth:
Christening: 19 JUN 1833 Bexley, Kent, England
Death:
Burial:

i shall get the cert and hopefully it will sort things out, if not nothing lost by trying
Thanks all got to stop now brain is starting to fry, to much ancestry lol

1881

Name: Elizabeth Carver
Age: 79
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Northfleet, Kent, England

Civil parish: Clewer
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Bexley Terrace
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Occupation: Farm Bailiffs Widow Retired

Registration district: Windsor
Sub-registration district: Windsor
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1324
Folio: 120
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Carver 79

___________________________________________________

1851

Name: Elizabeth Carver
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Carver
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Northfleet, Kent, England

Civil parish: Dartford
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Bexley
ED, institution, or vessel: 1f
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 157
Piece: 1607
Folio: 507
Page Number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
William Carver 54
Elizabeth Carver 49
William Carver 13
___________________________________________________

1841

Name: Elizabeth Carver
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Female
Where born: Kent, England

Civil parish: Bexley
Hundred: Ruxley
County/Island: Kent
Country: England


Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Bexley
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 480
Book: 3
Folio: 10
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
William Carver 45
Elizabeth Carver 40
George Carver 13
William Carver 4




Looks like you may have to re-think!

OK.......you're forgiven!

IF, as you say, Elizabeth jnr was born a Carver, why would she be 'Stoneham' on 1841 and 1851 censuses? Doesn't make sense..............

And Letitia must have been illegit..............to be registered as Stoneham......unless you have the wrong info about the mother, and her maiden name was NOT Stoneham...........and she in fact married a Stoneham...................

That was why I suggested that Letitia's birth cert could be useful

Another poss marriage

Husband

JOHN MERCHANT Pedigree

Birth:
Christening:
Marriage: 18 SEP 1832 Southfleet, Kent, England
Death:
Burial:



Wife

ELIZABETH STONEHAM Pedigree

Birth:
Christening:
Marriage: 18 SEP 1832 Southfleet, Kent, England
Death:
Burial:

Opps Sorry
Had a phone call forgot
thanks Every one

That's OK, no need to thank anyone for their efforts.................

As i said Elizabeth father was a William Carver so she was not illegitimate , so birth cert needed for Letitia that shoud solve the problem

Elizabeth was born at Bexley Letitia at Dartford
just had a thought i coiuld get Letitia birh cert that would show for sure who her father was

Husband

Thomas Stoneham Pedigree

Birth:
Christening:
Marriage:
Death:
Burial:



Wife

Mary Pedigree

Birth:
Christening:
Marriage:
Death:
Burial:



Children
1. Elizabeth Pedigree
Female


Birth:
Christening: 20 FEB 1803 Southfleet, Kent, England
Death:

This cert will resolve the issue for you

Name: Letitia Stoneham
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1838
Registration district: Dartford
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5
Page: 87

I find the transcription easier to follow........so.

Name: Elizabeth Stenham
[Elizabeth Stoneham]
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Daughter-in-law
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Bexley, Kent, England

Civil parish: Crayford
County/Island: Kent
Country: England


Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Bexley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 61
Piece: 1607
Folio: 294
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Green 39
Elizabeth Green 47
Elizabeth Stenham 18
Letitia Stenham 13 Dau in Law
Emma Green 7


Clearly, Elizabeth and Letitia are Joseph's stepdaughters.........thus they are Elizabeth's daughters.....either from a first marriage........or illegitimate

Daughter in law was commonly used in those times instead of step-daughter

1841 a name correction has been done on this entry

Name: Setilia Stoneham
[Letitia Stoneham]
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Gender: Female
Where born: Kent, England

Civil parish: Bexley
Hundred: Ruxley
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Bexley
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 480
Book: 4
Folio: 38
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Stoneham 8
Setilia Stoneham 3