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ELISABETH CHALMERS
Spouse: WILLIAM LESLIE Family
Marriage: 01 JUN 1839 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

ISOBEL CHALMERS
Spouse: DAVID MOIR Family
Marriage: 20 DEC 1833 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

Might be worth looking for her death?

ISABEL DUNCAN
23 JUN 1778 Cameron, Fife, Scotland
Father: JAMES DUNCAN Family
Mother: CATHERINE GRIEG


Ellie

I don't see Isabella in 1841, but 14 of 61 Fife parishes are missing in 1841 (including Ceres).

You can see an 1890s map showing parishes of any Scottish county at
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/

ROBERT GOURLAY
Birth: 01 SEP 1811

Christening: 09 SEP 1811 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

Father: WILLIAM GOURLAY Family
Mother: ISABELL DUNCAN

Ellie

1851
Name: Isabella Gourlay
Age: 76
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1775
Relationship: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Cameron, Fife
Parish Number: 415
Civil parish: Ceres
County: Fife
Address: Backbraes
ED: 3
Page: 12 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 38
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1851_85
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Gourlay 39
Eliza Gourlay 43
William Gourlay 10
David Gourlay 8
James Gourlay 6
Duncan Gourlay 4
Isabella Gourlay 76


Ellie

I have the other Thomas now ,which i feel is very funny!.
HELEN GOURLAY
Christening: 29 MAY 1808 Cameron, Fife, Scotland
Father: WILLIAM GOURLAY Family
Mother: ISABEL DUNCAN

I think this Willliam is deceased before the 1851 Census.
William and Isabell marry 28 JUL 1804 Cameron, Fife, Scotland
I have a William Gourley 1774 Colinsburgh,but no proof it's your William Gourley.It's in the area

Cameron parish contains the villages of Lathones, Peat Inn, Radernie and part of Denhead. It measures about 6 miles by 4 miles, and is bounded by St Andrews, Denino, Carnbee, Kilconquhar and Ceres
My William was Bapts.at Kilconquhar

Ellie

Hi ellieathome,

There are two records with slight differences on IGI, please see below, probably transcription errors somewhere i am guessing but not sure how you can transcribe december to august or vice versa.

It is stated John is from fife on 1841 census but from pennycuick in 1851 & 1861??? Confusing!

On the marriage record for John and Hellen there is also a record for John Gourlay & Christian Wilson, are these part of your tree? What information do you have regarding Hellen's birth?


Name: Thomas Chalmers
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 23 May 1834
Baptism/Christening Place: CERES,FIFE,SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 25 Dec 1833
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Chalmers
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Hellen Gourlay
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11415-7
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 1040155
Reference Number:

Name: Thomas Chalmers
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 30 Sep 1833
Baptism/Christening Place: CERES,FIFE,SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 28 Aug 1833
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Chalmers
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Helen Gourlay
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11415-7
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 1040155
Reference Number:

Marc

They are following the Naming pattern as Helen's mother was Isabel Duncan.

Ellie

There are no other births on the IGI between Isabell and Thomas,and only 1 Thomas with those parents
Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Thomas Chalmers birth: 28 Aug 1833
residence: 1833 Fife,? Scotland
parents: John Chalmers,? Helen Gourlay

Ellie

They married 5Nov.
Isabel Feb. 1832
Thomas Sept.1833

You think they may be a child between these 2

Ellie

There are only 1 set of Banns.

Ellie

1841
Name: John Chalmers
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Fife, Scotland

Civil parish: Largo
County: Fife
Address: Woodside
Occupation: Coal M
Parish Number: 443
Household Members: Name Age
John Chalmers 30
Hellen Chalmers 30
Isabell Chalmers 9 -c1832
Thomas Chalmers 7 -c1834
Christian Chalmers 5 -c1836
William Chalmers 3 -c1838
Hellen Chalmers 9 -c1840

I have Gourleys on my tree ,but can't place these .but Christian and Euphemia are family names for me .
John states he's from Fife?

Thanks for your help Helen.

A bit more researching for me still to do i guess.

Concerning the two Thomas Chalmers. I had a free search on Scotlandspeople to check out the christening dates on familysearch were recorded correctly .. and they were.

Obviously, the two Thomas' couldn't have been born in the short space of time to the same parents. The only thing I can think of is there is a mistake in the birth date of the second Thomas (25th Dec 1833) but the correct christening date (23rd May 1834)

Unfortunately, you would need to download the two records to check this out. Could also be the dates were mis-recorded in the Parish record.

Just for information this is what is on census records.

1841 Census, Largo
John Chalmers 30 born this parish
Hellen Chalmers 30 born this parish
Isabell Chalmers 9 born this parish
Thomas Chalmers 7 born this parish
Christian Chalmers 5 born this parish
William Chalmers 3 born this parish
Hellen Chalmers 9mth born this parish

1851 Census, Ceres
John Chalmers 45 born Midlothian, Pennycuick
Helen Chalmers 42 born Ceres
William Chalmers 12 born Ceres
Helen Chalmers 10 born Largo
Catharaine Chalmers 8 born Largo
Mary Chalmers 6 born Largo

1861 Census, Ceres
John Chalmers 54 born Midlothian, Pennycuick
Helen Chalmers 50 born Ceres
Helen Chalmers 19 born Largo
Euphemia Chalmers 13 born Dysart
Agnes Chalmers 11 born Ceres
John Chalmers 8 born Ceres
James Barclay(grand child) 3 born Ceres

These census records throw up other question i have yet to answer too. Some children missing from census records that they should have been in.

Thanks Helen.

I had found them on family search. Not sure which Thomas is correct though. I have in actual fact found 10 children listed as having John and Helen as parents.

Still doesn't help with getting my question answered but thank you for taking the time to look for me.

I probably should have listed children that were on the census records when i posted originally. My apologies.

These are the children of John Chalmers and Helen Gourlay. If they were following the naming pattern for their children, it looks likely Christina would have been John's mother's name. However, there is no birth or christening record for a John Chalmers with parents Thomas and Christina / Christian.


Father: John Chalmers,
Mother: Helen Gourlay

Children:

ISOBEL CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 26 FEB 1832 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

THOMAS CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 SEP 1833 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

THOMAS CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAY 1834 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

CHRISTINA CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 06 MAR 1835 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

WILLIAM CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 03 JUL 1837 Ceres, Fife, Scotland

HELEN CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 22 AUG 1839 Largo, Fife, Scotland

CATHERINE CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 24 AUG 1841 Largo, Fife, Scotland

MARY CHALMERS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 24 JUL 1843 Largo, Fife, Scotland

I couldn't find anything obvious either rootgatherer but William wasn't there first born son, I have Thomas born 1833 (no specific date though), who i believe may have died very young.
So the Scottish naming pattern would stand of that is the case. :-S

I don't see anything obvious (or otherwise) coming up Marc. Do you think that John and Helen used family names for their children (thinking of the Scottish naming pattern)? William seems to have been their first born son but then if he was named for his paternal grandfather you would have thought that he would have known that and he registered his father's death.