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Andy that 1841 census you gave me has cleared up one problem for me. I had Mary Ann's surname as possibly Turner. It turns out that her mothers maiden name looks likely to have been Turner,

Thanks again

Jane

Thanks Andy

You and Dea have done so much for me today. I cant thank you both enough.

Its strange how Mary went to Bradford for a time. I wonder what made her go there. Then she came back to Aylesbury where she married. Oh well I doubt if I will ever find out the reasons behind all this.

All the best

Jane

Found Mary Ray in census to confirm place of birth

1841 England Census
about Mary Ray Name: Mary Ray
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Female
Where born: Buckinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Oakley
Hundred: Ashendon
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Thame
Sub-registration district: Brill
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 39
Book: 4
Folio: 4
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Turner 65
John Ray 25 Ag Lab
Allice Ray 21
Mary Ray 1




51 England Census
about Mary Ann Ray Name: Mary Ann Ray
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Pauper
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Oakley, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Thame
Ecclesiastical parish: Oxford
Town: Thame
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Thame
Sub-registration district: Lewknor
ED, institution, or vessel: Thame Union Workhouse
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 1726
Folio: 335
Page Number: 9

1861 England Census
about Mary A Ray Name: Mary A Ray
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Oakley, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Bradford
Town: Bradford
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Horton
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 18
Piece: 3330
Folio: 82
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
John Illingworth 27
Mary A Illingworth 24
Louisa M B Illingworth 1
Mary A Ray 23



Andy

2nd marriage

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1866 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Neald William Aylesbury 3a 693
Neale William Aylesbury 3a 693
Ray Mary A Aylesbury 3a 693


Andy

Thanks Dea

I know I will have to send for those certs. It gets expensive this hobby doesn't it

All the best

Jane

Well Jane,

Only those two marriage certs will tell you if it is the same William, I am afraid - we haven't proved it yet !

You would also need one of the children's birth certs to confirm Mary Ann's maiden name.

Dea x

Thanks Dea for helping me. Both you and Andy have done a lot of hard work for me and I really appriciate it. Without your help I would be really stuck.

I found the marriage of William and Sarah so I can order that, The death is proving a bit harder to find. Never mind I will keep on looking.

So I think from the 1861 census I can take it he did marry Sarah Keys first. Right I had better get busy and update my records with all this infomation.

Thanks again everyone for all your help

Jane

I haed already found a William + Sarah and put it to one side as a 'possible':

1861 England Census
about William Neale
Name: William Neale
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Neale
Gender: Male
Where born: Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Waddesdon
Ecclesiastical parish: Waddesdon
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Aylesbury
Sub-registration district: Waddesdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 123
Piece: 868
Folio: 110
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
William Neale 25 Ag lab.
Sarah Neale 28


Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 868; Folio: 110; Page: 20; GSU roll: 542713.

Dea Xxx

Andrew Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I had to pop out.

Thank you so much for finding out all that information for me. I was really struggling with this family.

I have found a tree on Rootschat which could belong to this family but I need to check it out properly. It said that William born ab 1835ish married twice. First to Sarah Keys on the 7/12/1856 and then to Mary Ann Ray in 1866. Could you possibly do me a favour and see if you can find William with Sarah on the 1861 census. I will go and have a look on freebmd for the marriage and death of Sarah.

Thanks again for all your help.

Jane

Births Dec 1870 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neal Esther Aylesbury 3a 512


Andy

John?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1866 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neale John G Aylesbury 3a 435


Andy

This might be birth for Sarah

Births Dec 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEAL Sarah Ann Doncaster 9c 686


Andy

One trick for finding records when the surname changes is to use first names only. For example, using FreeBMD for Alice, in Aylesbury for date range 1865-1868 turns up about 60 records, but

Births Mar 1867 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEALE Alice Jane Aylesbury 3a 516

is the only possible


To find children who were born/died between censuses is more difficult. You can compare births and deaths on FreeBMD, but you would need to buy certs for possibles and that could get expensive with lots of wrong ones.

Andy

Here is 1891

1891 England Census
about Mary Ann Niles Name: Mary Ann Niles
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Oakley, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Conisbrough
Ecclesiastical parish: Conisbrough
Town: Conisbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Doncaster
Sub-registration district: Tickhill
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3858
Folio: 79
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Ann Niles 46 Widow
George Niles 17
Edward Niles 17
Willis Niles 14
Sarah Niles 10



Andy

Ok. This family is being a real big pain. I cant find them or identify them on Family search or freebmd. So can I ask for some more help please. can anyone find them on the 1861 or 1891 census. Hopefully they will give me second names eg was Alice just Alice or was she Alice Jane.

Also how do I go about finding the names of the missing children who probably were born and died between 1871 and 1881

Thanks for all your help

Jane

Thank you also Andrew and Dea

I can now add this information to my tree. I wasnt doing to well with this family because their name changes. Hopefully I will do better now.

all the best

Jane

Thanks Brummiejan

That looks like my family.

All the best

jane

1871 England Census
about William Neal
Name: William Neal
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Neal
Gender: Male
Where born: Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil parish: Fleet Marston
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aylesbury
Sub-registration district: Waddesdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 1414
Folio: 78
Page Number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
William Neal 32
Mary Ann Neal 28
Allice Neal 4
John Neal 2
Esther Neal 3 Months

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1414; Folio: 78; Page: 6; GSU roll: 828769.

Dea x

1871 England Census
about Allice Neal Name: Allice Neal
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Neal
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Neal
Gender: Female
Where born: Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil parish: Fleet Marston
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aylesbury
Sub-registration district: Waddesdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 1414
Folio: 78
Page Number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
William Neal 32
Mary Ann Neal 28
Allice Neal 4
John Neal 2
Esther Neal 3 Months



Andy

??

1871 England Census

Name: William Neal
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Neal
Gender: Male
Where born: Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil parish: Fleet Marston
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aylesbury
Sub-registration district: Waddesdon

William Neal 32
Mary Ann Neal 28
Allice Neal 4
John Neal 2
Esther Neal 3 Months



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