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I was wondering if anyone out there might be able to give me some advice about a mystery I've come across in my family searching, something they may have come across themselves.

I am currently returning to a problem I came across a while ago whilst researching my great grandfather, more particularly his siblings. His name was John Arthur GREAVES, born 1896, son of Robert William GREAVES, b 1874 Wakefield, although the family I believe can be found on the 1901 and 1911 census in Pontefract, which is where the family settled and remained. I havent seen the census data for a while but did write it down and as part of the siblings there was mentioned a Robert Greaves, born 1905, who would have been John's brother. However, (this isnt helped by the fact that my grandfather and great grandfather are now dead) but in family lore there is NO mention of Robert, it was only said that John had one brother, Archibald. I thought that perhaps Robert may have died young, explaining this, but I can find no record of a death for him on the BMD registers. I tried widening the search to little avail. Interestingly, when searching for marriages, I found an entry for a Robert Greaves marrying a "Speight" in Wakefield in 1933 but have not sent off for this record so it could just be a close coincidence. What intrigues me is that if he did not die young and survived to at least the 1930s then my grandfather may well have known, or should have had reason to believe, he existed. Was wondering if anyone might have any ideas as to how I could further this area? Thanks.

This could be John from 1911 census index. Need a kind person with a sub to look the details up

HOUSEHOLD GREAVES JOHN ARTHUR M 1896 15 Pontefract Yorkshire West Riding

Andy

is this the 1911 census
GREAVES, Robert Head Married M 37 1874 Coal Miner Hewer Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, Annie Wife Married
17 years F 35 1876 Stanley Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, John Arthur Son Single M 15 1896 Pony Driver Coal Mine Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, Elizabeth Daughter F 13 1898 Mother's Help Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, Jane Alison Daughter F 11 1900 School Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, Davinia Daughter F 9 1902 School Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, Robert Son M 6 1905 School Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, Lillian Daughter F 2 1909 Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
GREAVES, Archie Son M 1 1910 Streethouse Yorkshire VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
27482 Reference:
RG14PN27482 RG78PN1573 RD505 SD3 ED22 SN325

Registration District:
Pontefract Sub District:
Pontefract Enumeration District:
22 Parish:
Snydale

Address:
73 Batty Buildings Streethouse Pontefract County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

Thank you Andrew and Maddie, that's refreshed my memory of the census. There is a Robert there so I'm not going mad! and he was older than Archie, which makes this even more intriguing for me!

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Robert Greaves
Name: Robert Greaves
Birth Date: 15 Apr 1905
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1973
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Wakefield
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2d
Page: 1408

Possible death

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Robert Greaves
Name: Robert Greaves
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1905
Registration district: Pontefract
Inferred County: Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 127 (click to see others on page)

possible marraiges
GREAVES Robert England Yorkshire, Bradford 1923 VIEW
GREAVES Robert England Yorkshire, Sheffield 1924 VIEW
GREAVES Robert England Yorkshire, Leeds 1927 VIEW
GREAVES Robert England Yorkshire, Sheffield 1929 VIEW
GREAVES Robert England Yorkshire, Selby 1930 VIEW
GREAVES Robert England Yorkshire, Knaresborough 1932 VIEW
GREAVES Robert England Yorkshire, Wakefield 1933

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Albert Greaves
Name: Albert Greaves
Mother's Maiden Name: Tipling
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1911
Registration district: Pontefract
Inferred County: Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 224 (click to see others on page)

Another child?

More possible children after the census

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GREAVES Albert Tipling Pontefract 9c 224


Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greaves Ethel Tipling Pontefract 9c 239

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1913 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greaves Ada Tipling Pontefract 9c 236

Andy

Wow sorry just taking that all in! These are all correct as John Arthur's mum was Annie Tipling so these must be even more siblings who we never knew existed! And if that possible death is right Helen then Robert was alive when my Dad was!

Could be all the later children died young. Sad.

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Sep 1911 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greaves Albert 0 Pontefract 9c 192


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Dec 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greaves Ethel 0 Pontefract 9c 122

Deaths Sep 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greaves Ada 0 Pontefract 9c 153


Andy

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about Robert William Greaves
Name: Robert William Greaves
Birth Year: abt 1873
Age: 22
Marriage or Bann Date: 15 Apr 1895
Parish: Normanton, All Saints
Father's Name: William Greaves
Spouse's Name: Annie Eliza Tipling
Spouse's Father's Name: William Tipling

This is Robert and Annie's marriage??

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Freeman Robert Thomas Wakefield 9c 43
Greaves Robert William Wakefield 9c 43
Thornton Martha Wakefield 9c 43
Tipling Annie Eliza Wakefield 9c 43

Which fits in with children born after 1911

Yes those are the marriages, Greaves to Tipling. Very sad about those younger 3 children, although it explains why they weren't mentioned. But Robert still remains elusive, I am beginning to think that that Robert who died in Wakefield may be worth getting his certificate to see if he is indeed the right guy, as Wakefield and Pontefract are close and Robert Greaves senior himself was from Wakefield.

if the speight marraige is a possibilty this could be her

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Marian Speight
Name: Marian Speight
Mother's Maiden Name: Myford
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1913
Registration district: Wakefield
Inferred County: Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 142 (click to see others on page)


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005 about Marian Greaves
Name: Marian Greaves
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1912
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1974
Age at Death: 62
Registration district: Wakefield
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 5
Page: 1459

Maddie,

As I, nor anyone else, can seem to find a death for Robert born 1905 prior to 1973 I'm incline to believe that he may well be the chap who married Marian Speight. I've just ordered the marriage certificate to see who the father of Robert is put down as as that will be the definitive way to find out if he is the right guy. Thank you

There are 2 Greaves births with Speight as MMS in the right area and at the right time
Douglas and Norma L
Either may still be alive and could throw some light in the mystery

I was hoping that, should this be the right chap, then he may well have surviving offspring who we dont know but might be able to help, as it's a relatively close family connection. Never traced a living relative though!

Sadly Douglas died 2005 Jan Q Wakefield (birth date 12/12/1934)
Have sent pm with details of marriages of Douglas and Norma (who may be still alive as her death is not on BMD up to 2005

Sadly Douglas died 2005 Jan Q Wakefield (birth date 12/12/1934)
Have sent pm with details of marriages of Douglas and Norma (who may be still alive as her death is not on BMD up to 2005