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I believe this lady was born in c1831 as she have her age as 21 on her marriage cert in 1852.
She gave her fathers name as Edwin (a finisher) and on census says she was born Lancs.
I can find no trace of her before her marriage.

Can anyone help please??? :-S

Who did she marry in 1852? Did it say she was a spinster?

Have you found her in later census with her husband to pinpoint where in Lancs she was born?

As only you know her married name, we are unable to help unless you let us have all the info you know.

Worked this out from a tree on Ancestry - the tree name is the same as yours:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1852
CHAPMAN Elizabeth Manchester 8d 239
Harrison Samuel Manchester 8d 239

It also has on the tree that she was born Salford in 1832.

A possibility..although you have probably seen it on Ancestry

Did marriage cert state father was dead ?

I cant read original image, sorry

1851 England Census
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary A Chapman
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Christ Church
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Salford

Sub Registration district: 1aa Regent Road


Mary A Chapman 50
Elizabeth Chapman 20
Samual Chapman 17
Sarah A Chapman 14
Robert Chapman 12
John Chapman 6

Misty x

1861 for reference.

HARRISON, Samuel Head Married M 31 1830 Porter
Runcorn
Cheshire VIEW
HARRISON, Elizabeth Wife Married F 31 1830 Spinner
Salford
Lancashire VIEW
HARRISON, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 2 1859
Warrington
Cheshire VIEW
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
2896 Folio:
129 Page:
29

Registration District:
Chorlton Sub District:
4 Hulme Enumeration District:
44 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St George

Civil Parish:
Hulme Municipal Borough:
Manchester Address:
3, James Place, Hulme, Manchester County:
Lancashire

Same family I gave above.......Elizabeth's sister Maria's marriage could possibly tell you if its the correct one

1861 England Census
Name: Maria Minshall
[Maria Chapman]
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary Chapman
Gender: Female
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address...7 Gaythorn st ( I think )

Sub registration district: Regent Road

Registration district: Salford

Mary Chapman 59
Robert Chapman 22
John I Chapman 5
John Minshall 57......Husband of Maria
Maria Minshall 35
Joseph Minshall 52
Daniel Chapman 15
John Chapman 16


Would seem Maria married twice...

1871 England Census
about Maria Redmond
Name: Maria Redmond
[Maria Chapman]
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary Chapman
Gender: Female
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire

Regent Road

Mary Chapman 70
John Chapman 16
Maria Redmond 47


Marriage Dec 1850....Manchester

Maria Chapman....vol 20 page 493
John Minshull

Misty x

Is this a possibility?

Deaths Dec 1845
CHAPMAN Edwin Manchester 20 541

So many posters today not sticking around after asking a question.... and not giving vital information which they obviously have.

from the beta.familysearch site


record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: Samuel Harrison
bride's name: Elizabeth Chapman
marriage date: 15 Aug 1852
marriage place: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
indexing project (batch) number: M09789-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 438217




sylvia

Just a word of warning ...... ages on marriage certificates cannot be trusted.

The usual reason for giving the wrong age is because people under the age of 21 needed to get parental approval (usually father, unless he was dead or absent). No such approval was needed if they over 21.

This could be important if either bride or groom was unwelcome to the other's parents


My grandmother said she was 20 on her certificate. My grandfather said he was 19


WRONG

She was 19 and he was 17


No idea why they lied .................... they were still underage, and would need parental approval, and fathers and other family members were present at the marriage!




sylvia

On the 1861 Census, Mary Chapman is shown as Widow, b. ca 1802, Salford.


Mary Chapman 59 Head, Widow, Mangle Woman
Robert Chapman 22 b.ca 1839, Bolton, Son, Cotton Spinner
John I Chapman 5 b.ca 1856, Salford, Grandson, Scholar
John Minshall 57 b.ca 1804, Shropshire, Son-in-Law, Boot Maker ......Husband of Maria
Maria Minshall 35 b.ca 1826, Salford, Daughter, Cotton Spinner
Joseph Minshall 52 b.ca 1809, Shropshire, Visitor, Unmarried, Boot Maker ........ ?? John Minshall's brother??
Daniel Chapman 15 b.ca 1846, Salford, Grandson, Cotton Dyer
John Chapman 16 b.ca 1845, Salford, Son, Porter in Warehouse




sylvia

This family on the 1841 seems to be the same family found by Mistycat in 1851 and 1861

Only the father's name is John

1841 Census

Name: Mary Chapman
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bolton Le Moors
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton

John Chapman 35 Roller Maker
Mary Chapman 35
William Chapman 15 Roller Maker
Maria Chapman 15 Cotton Spinner
Elizabeth Chapman 10
Samuel Chapman 5
Sarah Chapman 5
Robert Chapman 2


all born in Lancashire

The ages of everyone over the age of 15 have been rounded down to the nearest 5, as per the instructions for that census.



I wonder if this IS Elizabeth's family, and she got the father wrong. OR is not the family?



sylvia

I think Edwin is a wild goose chase


There is NO Elizabeth Chapman shown as baptised with father Edwin on the Lancs opc site (www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html)

There is NO Edwin Chapman showing on that site as father of any children


There is no sign of a baptism on the beta.familysearch site.


it looks more and more as though Elizabeth invented him!





sylvia

I believe I have worked on this person before (for someone else) - It was a couple of years ago but I did a LOT of research at the time on her!

I will try to 'unbury' my notes as it may help you to get in touch with the other person!

They will take some finding but I know I would not have thrown them away :-D

Will come back to you on this later.

Dea Xxx

Ohhh - excitement over I am afraid !!

I found my notes and it transpired that the ;other person' who I had doped to put you in touch with was 'you' !!!

We shared 6 months of pm messages at the beginning of 2008 !!

We didn't solve it though !!

Best wishes,

Dea Xxx

So sorry I didnt give all info I had.
Know better now.
Yes she married Samuel Harrison and I have her marriage cert.
Her father was given as Edwin she was a spinster.
I have her on census after her marriage and she gave her birth place as Salford

I have been trying for ever to find her father and Dea is right we got nowhere between us.

I now think that the name of Edwin is wrong and should have been Edmund/Edward.
There is a marriage for an Edmund Chapman and Jane at Manchester Cathedral and Edmund was born Eccles (near Salford) There are baptisms for the couples children but still cant find Elizabeth s baptism.
Thought this may be a possibility as Elizabeth named her daughter Jane
Am beginning to think I will never get back any further than Elizabeth. Where am I going wrong? :-(

You're not necessarily going wrong!

You are however making assumptions based on little evidence ..... naming a child Jane MAY reflect the name of a mother, or aunt, or whoever

OR it may just be a name that Elizabeth liked!




My gut feeling is tending to lean to Elizabeth being illegitimate, and that she did not have a father, butjust produced a name for the marriage certificate ............... it looks better for the in-laws, and has led many of us on wild goose chases!


The name chosen in such cases, may be the name of a grandfather, an uncle, a family friend, a name liked, etc



sylvia

Thank you Sylvia "I think" :-) Maybe this means I should just leave this one and start on another line :-\

or put it on one side for a time, and try again in a couple of years when there might be more records on-line?