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Hey all ..this is a confusing and long one......

I have been researching a particular family for quite some time now and it is confusing me. The family name is OWENS and PRICHARD...which are very common names to track down.

I have got a birth cert, of my great gran: Elizabeth Owen b. nov 1866 in mountain ash, Llanwonno, Glamorganshire. Her father was David Owen (coal miner) and Elizabeth PRICHARD.

The reason why I believe this is the right record is because on Elizabeth Owen's (b.1866) marriage cert. in 1889 she marries in Mountain Ash to a William WILLIAMS, and gives he father as David Owens (deceased) and he is a coal miner. Elizabeth gives her age as 21 so her birth year would be 1868. Also I found Elizabeth and her husband (William Williams) the 1901 census and her birthplace is stated as Mountain Ash, Glamorgan.

I have tried to find Elizabeth in any census other then when she was married to William Williams, but the only one she pops up is in the 1881 census as a servant i believe in 47 Woodland St, Mountain Ash. So she is missing from the 1871 census, where she should pop up with her parents (David Owen/Owens and Elizabeth nee Prichard)....

I did find a close match in the 1871 census of the parents in Merthyr Tydfil, which is close to Elizabeth's birthplace of Mountain Ash. This census states that

David Owen is the head married 38, a coal miner born in Pembrokeshire, Lampeter (i think..its hard to read)
Elizabeth Owen wife married 34 coal miner wife born in Glamorganshire, Merthyr
William J Owen 4 scholar born in Glamorganshire, Merthyr
George W or M Owen 1 month born in Glamorganshire, Merthyr

I am wondering if Elizabeth Owen (nee Prichard) re married when her husband died, because I know David OWEN(S) was alive in 1866 because of the birth of Elizabeth Owen, and i know that David had died before 1889 because he is stated as Deceased on Elizabeth Owens marriage cert, to William Williams.

I research Elizabeth Prichard abit further by getting a marriage cert of her marrying David OWEN in 1864 in Merthyr Tydfil.
Elizabeth gives her father as Henry PRITCHARD (deceased) and he is an Independent minister. Both David Owen and Elizabeth Pritchard were living in Mountain Ash Aberdare.

I went back further and got Elizabeth Prichard living with her family in 1851 census:

Henry Pritchard head mar. 33 Independant minister and school master born in Brecon
Elizabeth Pritchard wife mar 32 born in Brecon, Lanelly
Enoch Pritchard son 8 scholar Brecon, Lanelly
Mary Pritchard dau 6 scholar Brecon, Lanelly
Elizabeth Pritchard 4 scholar Glamorgan (hard to read town)

I have the family in the 1861 census but Henry Pritchard is not listed but Elizabeth is still married and she is a china shop keeper.

I am just wondering if this all matches up? because I cannot find David's family including my great gran (elizabeth Owen) in any census, other then the one i stated above......so I am wondering if David died and then Elizabeth Owen (his widow) re-married and the other children were renamed as well in the census.

I have got a feeling that maybe Elizabeth Owen (nee Pritchard) married a DAVIES, but i not sure.

Thank you Craig

ps sorry its long and i know its confusing :-S

if anyone could give me advise on how i would go about to see if this might be true, I would greatly appreciate it thank you

This looks like the family you posted for 1871 ,but now with a different wife, this ones called Mary and is 10 years younger than Elizabeth, but the father and children match up..

1881

OWEN, David Head Married M 50 1831 Collier
Clyddau
Pembrokeshire
Wales VIEW
OWEN, Mary Wife Married F 35 1846
Llansanffraed
Cardiganshire
Wales VIEW
OWEN, William J Son Single M 15 1866 Colliers Labourer
Penydarran
Glamorganshire
Wales VIEW
OWEN, George Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Penydarran
Glamorganshire
Wales VIEW
OWEN, Jane Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
Penydarran
Glamorganshire
Wales VIEW
OWEN, Thomas Boarder Widower M 60 1821 Founder In Iron Works
Clyddau
Pembrokeshire
Wales VIEW

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RG number:
RG11 Piece:
5315 Folio:
74 Page:
16

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Upper Merthyr Tydfil Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil Municipal Borough:
Address:
18, Bryn Zion St, Merthyr Tydfil County:


Still no sign of Elizabeth born c1866,, and if this is her family her mother had presumably died.


Nicky

For reference...the 1871 family that Craig thinks are the correct family except that Elizabeth b c1866 is missing...


OWEN, David Head M 38 1833 Pembrokeshire VIEW
OWEN, Elizabeth Wife F 34 1837 Glamorgan VIEW
OWEN, William J Son M 4 1867 Glamorgan VIEW
OWEN, George M Son M 0 1871 Glamorgan VIEW

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RG number:
RG10 Piece:
5400 Folio:
82 Page:
36

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Merthyr Tydfil, Upper Enumeration District:
19 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil Penydarran Ward Municipal Borough:
Address:
Horeb St, Merthyr Tydfil Penydarran Ward, Merthyr Tydfil County:
Glamorganshire



Nicky

1891...same family again.....does this prove they are not yours as father David is still alive???

OWEN, David Head Married M 57 1834 Coal Miner
Llida
Pembrokeshire VIEW
OWEN, Mary Wife Married F 46 1845
Llansaintffraid
Cardiganshire VIEW
OWEN, George M Son Single M 20 1871 Coal Miner
Penydarren
Glamorganshire VIEW
OWEN, Jane Daughter Single F 17 1874 Dressmaker
Glamorganshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
4439 Folio:
22 Page:
7

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Upper Merthyr Tydfil Enumeration District:
10 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Dowlais

Civil Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil Municipal Borough:
Address:
12, Lower Elizabeth Street, Merthyr Tydfil, Dowlais County:
Glamorganshire



Nicky

Could she have lied about her age? or that her father was dec'd?

jax

Who are the witnesses on the marriage of Elizabeth to William Williams..what adresses do they give...??


Nicky

yeah i did come acrross Mary in the census and did think maybe Elizabeth died and David Owen remarried, just i dunno its taken me about 5 years just to get all this.

Its just a complete mystery why Elizabeth Owens is missing in the census's

Thank you Nicky

1911... you didn`t say if you had this or not..

WILLIAMS, William Head Married M 49 1862 Coal Miner Haulier Ynysdder Mon VIEW
WILLIAMS, Elizabeth Wife Married
23 years F 44 1867 Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, David John Son Single M 22 1889 Coal Miner Hewer Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, William Edward Son Single M 21 1890 Coal Miner Hewer Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, Elizabeth Ann Daughter Single F 19 1892 Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, Trevor Son Single M 17 1894 Coal Miner Hewer Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, Margaret Jane Daughter Single F 14 1897 Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, Branwen Daughter Single F 10 1901 School Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, Jessie Daughter Single F 7 1904 Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW
WILLIAMS, Rachel Daughter Single F 3 1908 Glamorgan Mountain Ash VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32280 Reference:
RG14PN32280 RG78PN1851 RD589 SD2 ED34 SN77

Registration District:
Pontypridd Sub District:
Llanwonno Enumeration District:
34 Parish:
Llanwonno

Address:
20 Copplestone Street Mountain Ash County:
Glamorganshire




Nicky

The witnesses at Elizabeth Owens and William Williams marriage is a David Davies and a David John Davies and Elizabeth gives her address as 47 Woodland st. Mountain ash and Williams is 57 Commercial Street, Mountain ash.

Yeah I dont think it my family because Elizabeth states her father is dead by the time she married. As far as I know she wouldnt lie about it as she was very very religious and was all about family ....mmm... thanks again :)

PS thanks Nicky i did have it and thats how i knew for def that Elizabeth was born in Mountain Ash, Rachel Williams their daughter is my gran. Thanks again much appreciated.

For ref. 1891..

WILLIAMS, William Head Married M 29 1862 Coal Miner
?
Monmouthshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 25 1866
Mountain Ash
Glamorganshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, David John Son M 2 1889
Mountain Ash
Glamorganshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, William E Son M 0 (6M) 1891
Mountain Ash
Glamorganshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
4416 Folio:
44 Page:
13

Registration District:
Pontypridd Sub District:
Llanwonno Enumeration District:
21 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Margarets

Civil Parish:
Llanwonno Municipal Borough:
Address:
100, High Street, Llanwonno, Mountain Ash County:
Glamorganshire




Nicky

yes that is my family, because Rachel Williams (my gran), their daughter was born in 100 High St Mountain ash. Thanks Nicky

The reason why I think Elizabeth Owen (nee Prichard) re-married was because I was watching Coming Home on BBC 1 a while ago and Michael Ball was doing his family tree. Well it came to one point and It said about Henry Prichard and his family. Well it showed the 1861 census where Henry's wife was listed as head and it was exactly the same as my census and family which I research. Well Michael Balls descendents moved to Mountain Ash, and its just a coincidence that is where my side settled.

Only thing is I think that michael balls family were Davies (a Prichard married a Davies) and I believe this Prichard was Elizabeth who had previous married David Owens. As I know he died before Elizabeth Owen (his daughter) married at the age of 21 (roughly), I thought maybe her mother re-married and had children which where Michael's ancestors ....

what you think?

Checked the addresses in Woodland street and Commercial street in1881 and 1891 ,but neither of them were living there then.


Too many David Davies to hazard a guess at the witnesses identity...

I`m wondering if both of Elizabeths parents died before the 1871 census.??

Have you checked her mother Elizabeths family { the Prichards} in 1871 to see if shes with them?



Nicky


Nicky

I have looked but nothing i can find. All i know is the Prichard family (Elizabeth as the head) is shown in the 1861 census as living in Llangynwyd, Cwmdu. Thanks all i know of them, so dunno if they moved on or stayed there

Also Elizabeth is 42 shown as married but is head, and she is a China shop keeper. (1861 census)

I think all this feesable Craig , but I can see the problem your having in proving this..

Have you looked at anyParish Records for Mountain Ash? Are there any available online?


Searching those may help prove your theorys ...


Nicky

not online no, well not that i am aware off. So say now Elizabeth did re-marry, how may i know if she did?

on the marriage record it would state that she was a widower right? if i get one that looks close that is.

Just find it strange that they dont pop up on time, thats why I thought maybe a remarriage took place and then the mother changed their names on the census to her new husbands name? thats the only logical thing i can think of for why they wouldnt be found under Owen/Owens.

But thanks Nicky, nice to have a fresh pair of eyes, because this one has got me stumped lol

May be worth getting in touch with.....you never know what information they may be able to help you with..


Mountain Ash Library
Knight Street
Mountain Ash
CF45 3EY

Telephone (01443) 473200

E-Mail [email protected]|



Nicky

Thank you Nicky am very grateful for help :)

Hi Craig. unfortunately with all these common names and places, it simply just might not work, i.e. you might get nowhere.

Sorry to be negative, and I hope I am wrong.

Meg