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from familysearch the details of the George Bradley death record

Death Date: 28 Jan 1985
Death Place: North Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Name: George Bradley
Gender: Male
Age: 76y
Birth Date: 24 Jan 1909
Birthplace: Manchester, England
Marital Status: Married
>>> Spouse: Rosina Renoden
Father: George Bradley
Mother: Teresa Dickenson
Film Number: 1358011
Digital Folder Number: 4437832
Image Number: 1499
British Columbia Archives Film Number: B16571
Registration Number: 85 09 002491

the surname Renoden is not found in any other bmd records in BC

but very probably this is her

parents: Frederick Owen Renoden, Ellen Renoden

record title: England, Lancashire, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Parish Registers, 1603-1910
name: Rosina Renoden
event: Christening
event date: 30 Jun 1907
event place: Chorlton-cum-Hardy (Manchester), Lancashire, England
father: Frederick Owen Renoden
mother: Ellen Renoden
digital folder number: 004452308

yes indeed

Marriages Dec 1933
Bradley George Renoden Manchester S. 8d 40
Renoden Rosina Bradley Manchester S. 8d 40

she is in three trees at this site ( one incorrectly says born 1910 ) ... one of them seems to be your cousin Angela ... so she had this information already too ... do you know the other two ?

they seem to have had three children in England

I checked trees here for the youngest one and Angela and one of the other people have him in their trees

are you in touch with her still ? she seems to have quite a lot of information that you may be forgetting or not be aware of

we understand it can be confusing ... suggest you print off both this thread and the one from rootschat and put them somewhere safe now !

Leclair is a very common name in Canada because it is French Canadian ( and Le Clair a little less so )

even in Toronto and the immediate area there are about 40 telephone listings

http://www.canada411.ca/search/?stype=si&what=leclair&where=toronto

there are just no records publicly available that will help


from the thread at rootschat someone sent you the details of the death certificate of her son George ( born 1909 in England ) in Vancouver

you also said this

'I have found something myself tonight, BMD388792 refers to the birth of a son to Mr and Mrs William Leclaire, child born 29/10/1926 = Barrie a son. theresa would have been 36 when she had the child. (if it is her) The announcement was in the Barrie Examiner.'

given the different spelling, LeclairE, it probably is not them. Barrie is rather north of Toronto if you look at a map. There are telephone listings there now for Leclair but not Leclaire ( which could have been misspelt )

http://www.canada411.ca/search/?stype=si&what=leclair&where=barrie&x=0&y=0

a dozen listings even in a small city in English Canada

did George's death certificate not tell you anything useful ?

you do need to print off the rootschat thread and read it through carefully again ... in case you did not keep the information about George's death this is the basic information, the person at rootschat may have given you more from the record on microfilm

http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-30DAA03/gbsearch/Births,Marriages,Deaths

Vital Event Death Registration
Name: George Bradley
Event Date: 1985 1 28 (Yr/Mo/Day)
Age: 76
Gender: male
Event Place: North Vancouver
Reg. Number: 1985-09-002491
B.C. Archives Microfilm Number: B16571
GSU Microfilm Number: 1358011

I don't know how you already knew of his death

there are 4 George Bradley marriages in Vancouver 1925-1935 but all had middle names

there are too many possible passenger records to identify him travelling to Canada, this is one possibility but there are others with just an initial, no birthdate stated, etc

BRADLEY George 1909 M 1930 Southampton Canada Quebec

In Vancouver today there are some 35 Bradley listings and that is just Vancouver proper, it too is a large city with adjoining communities ( for example there are 17 in Nanaimo )

http://www.canada411.ca/search/?stype=si&what=bradley&where=vancouver

but you know there would never be any harm done in sending a letter to Bradleys in the area


do look at the rootschat thread again, I'm afraid there probably is no more that we can suggest to help

Hey , I am sorry if I have upset you, I will apologise first and just say I didn't recall the roots information and I am trying to research four blood lines as I never knew any of my grandparents and the information I have is absolutely nil and I have emails coming in all over the place = I am really very grateful to you all....unfortunantely due to illness I have not had much input into my tree for a long time, so it is more or less back to the starting point for me and that starting point is Theresa, because the story is so complex and myself and my cousin in Australia are triying to find any descendents (if she had children with William Le Clair) as it would be comforting to know why she left this country and her children.
My apologies again.

sorry Jackie ... but are you not the person who posted that question at rootschat and engaged in all that discussion and was given all that information ?? or someone with the same name ?!

Hi to you all, look I am sorry I haven't got back earlier, but you have given me SO much information, and I didn't have very much to go on - this is a great help to me, I do struggle with the research part I'm afraid, OK with looking for info that is quite straightforward, but I have needed help with this. I want to find any living relatives in Canada of Theresa and William. If I have duplicated my enquiry I am sorry, but there are details here that I haven't noted before and the roots chat I can't recall seeing.

Well, I guess I didn't have anything better to do anyways. :-(

my goodness, I just googled the name 'William Henry Leclair' ... !

http://38thbattalion.blogspot.com/2010/05/private-william-henry-leclair.html


Soldiers of the 38th

An attempt at an ongoing mass biography of the officers and men of the 38th Battalion, Canadian Expeditionary Force, during the First World War

Private William Henry LeClair
Born on 30 July 1883 in Worcester, Massachusetts - brother of Mrs. Nora Lewis, Brighton, Massachusetts - at the time of his enlistment in 1914: trade as groom; married; no current or previous military service; Roman Catholic; height of 5 feet 5 inches; chest of 38 inches fully expanded; medium complexion; grey eyes; dark hair.

Joined the 4th Regiment, Canadian Mounted Rifles, CEF, in Toronto, Ontario, on 27 November 1914 (number 109443) - taken on the strength of the Fort Garry Horse, CEF, on 21 or 22 May 1916 - released on 21 August 1916 - transferred to the 38th Battalion, CEF, on 14 July 1917 - struck off the strength of the 38th Battalion on 18 July 1917 - later reported sick.

(sources: Library and Archives Canada (www.collectionscanada.gc.ca), online attestation papers; Canadian War Museum, 19740281-001, Manu 58F 2 3, 207th Canadian Infantry Battalion and 38th Canadian Infantry Battalion, Nominal Roll; The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa Regimental Museum, A400-0007, Master Personnel List for the 38th Canadian Infantry Battalion, Canadian Expeditionary Force)


not much more than is on the attestation papers ...



and Jackie .............

you have all this information already

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,502656.0.html

the marriage is there, the attestation papers are there, the information about her son George dying in Vancouver in 1985 is there ... the website I just 'found' above in this post is there ...


I guess we should all have waited until you provided it ... which you never did do ... before wasting our time like this, really ...

I don't know what you were hoping for in this thread since noting new has been found that you did not already have

there are many pelple named Leclair and Le Clair in Worcester county Massachusetts in the 1910 US census whose birthplace is given as 'Canada French' and I expect that this was the case for William

MarieCeleste can you spot one who looks like him in the USA censuses ? :-) there is no 1890 census for Massachusetts ...

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php

Soldiers of the First World War - CEF

Name: LECLAIR, WILLIAM HENRY
Regimental number(s): 109443
Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 5510 - 35
Date of Birth: 30/07/1883
Attestation paper: Front of form - Back of form

the attestation paper is here

http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc009/453736a.gif

next of kin is sister Nora Leclair Lewis in Massachusetts
date of birth 30 July 1883
born in Spencer Worcester Massachusetts
for 'are you married' it says 'no' then that is scratched out and it says 'yes'
I can't understand his occupation, it looks like 'Givone'

so it all matches the marriage record

he enrolled at Toronto on 27th Nov 1914

many men went to Canada from the USA to enrol in the Canadian Expeditionary Force for WWI before the USA entered the war



Jackie I think I understand that you or someone close is descended from one of Theresa's children born in England and you are looking for her family in Canada ? and maybe family of her siblings in England ?

if you clarify that a bit we know what else to look for :-)

Some vitals:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1883
>>Backhouse Clara Tadcaster 9c 1202
Backhouse John William Tadcaster 9c 1202
>>DICKINSON William Tadcaster 9c 1202
Routledge Catherine Smith Tadcaster 9c 1202
(Wonder if that was her brother?)

Deaths Jun 1906
DICKINSON Clara 40 Chorlton 8c 499

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1908
??Dickinson William Chorlton 8c 1790
??Hodges Emily Jane Chorlton 8c 1790
Mould Charles Chorlton 8c 1790
ROBERTS Clara Barrow F. 8c 1790
ROUGHSEDGE Beatrice Emily Chorlton 8c 1790

I'll delete the household in England since I had the wrong parents :-)

the Leclair marriage is the right person since Teresa had middle name Backhouse when she married

Births Mar 1889
Dickinson Theresa Backhouse Prestwich 8d 410

yes that 1911 census for the couple is the one I posted and then the births of the other children ... I wonder whether the Robert W Bradley death I posted is the right one for the child, it looks like it has to be ...

Father William in 1911 - what happened to Clara?

DICKINSON, William Head Married M 48 1863 Coal Dealer And Police Pensioner Yorkshire Garforth
DICKINSON, Emily Jane Wife Married 2 years F 50 1861 Lancashire Manchester
DICKINSON, Bamfylde Arthur Son Single M 25 1886 Coal Carrier Lancashire Manchester
DICKINSON, Clara Elizabeth Daughter Single F 19 1892 Household Duties Lancashire Manchester
DICKINSON, Enid Stacy Daughter Single F 16 1895 Apprentice Dressmaker Lancashire Manchester
DICKINSON, Jack Harhacre Son M 7 1904 Lancashire Manchester

Registration District: Chorlton
Sub District: Didsbury
Enumeration District: 5
Parish: South Manchester

Address: 32 Church Street Didsbury County: Lancashire

To everyone who has helped with this a tremendous thankyou, I have a lot to filter through so it may be a while before I am back asking for help. I will take a look at all....you are quite amazing, don't know how you manage to get info so quickly....thanks again.

1901 - parents names match the Toronto marriage:

DICKINSON, William Head Married M 38 1863 Police Sergeant Garforth Yorkshire
DICKINSON, Clara Wife Married F 35 1866 Dodworth Yorkshire
DICKINSON, Bamfylde A Son M 15 1886 Book Binder's Apprentice Manchester Lancashire
DICKINSON, Garforth B Son M 13 1888 Garforth Yorkshire
DICKINSON, Theresa B Daughter F 12 1889 Manchester Lancashire
DICKINSON, Clara E Daughter F 9 1892 Manchester Lancashire
DICKINSON, Enid S Daughter F 6 1895 Manchester Lancashire

Registration District: Chorlton
Sub District: Chorlton upon Medlock
Enumeration District: 44
Ecclesiastical Parish: Greenheys St Clements
Civil Parish: South Manchester

Address: 2, Linwood Street, South Manchester County: Lancashire

** There's some unusual names in there, so Jackie could follow those through to trace relatives.

Full 1911 for our ref:

BRADLEY, George Head Married M 31 1880 Coal Carter Manchester Lancs
BRADLEY, Theresa Wife Married 3 years F 22 1889 Manchester Lancs
BRADLEY, Robert William Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Manchester Lancs

Registration District: Chorlton
Sub District: Didsbury
Enumeration District: 3
Parish: South Manchester

Address: 6 Ventnor Road Didsbury Manchester County: Lancashire

** The original says 2 children born, both still living?

????

Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1928

Name: Theressa Dickinson < stated as spinster
Birth Place: Manchester England
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Father Name: William Dickinson
Mother Name: Clara Backhouse
Spouse Name: William Henry Leclair < Veterinary doctor (Soldier .......)
Spouse's Age: 31
Spouse Birth Place: Spencer Mass USA
Spouse Father Name: Napoleon Leclair
Spouse Mother Name: Marian Hickey
Marriage Date: 22 Dec 1914
Marriage Location: York
Marriage County: York
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_301

Witnesses were Fred & Edith Evans.

There's a lot of writing on this form and can't make much of it out.

What was "our" Theresa's mother's maiden name?

Was this her going there?


Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
about Theresa Bradley
Name: Theresa Bradley
Gender: Female
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Date of Arrival: 17 Apr 1914
Vessel: Alsatian
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-4753

This one has a big scribble where the marital status should be M for Married or S for Single. It's been one, then changed to the other but can't say which. She was a domestic and her onward destination was Montreal.

That 1926 marriage? EDIT: Which we now can probably rule out.

Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1928

Name: Michael Hughes
Birth Place: Ulster Ireland; Keady; Armagh
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Father Name: Michael Hughes < Bachelor
Mother Name: Mary Hanratty
Spouse Name: Theresa Bradley < Spinster
Spouse's Age: 24
Spouse Birth Place: Scotland
Spouse Father Name: John Bradley
Spouse Mother Name: Mary Ann McColgan
Marriage Date: 16 Sep 1926
Marriage County: York
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_749

Jackie, come back to the thread ! I got your private message but you need to put the info here so everyone can see it as someone else may be able to help

I'm going to put your message here so we can have a look


Thankyou SO much...you are absolutely spot on. It is quite a complicated story, and it has given me lots of headaches.
Theresa left three children behind after her daughter was either still born or died in early infancy....she did go to Canada, and I don't how you found the passage so quickly.
The detailsof the people in the UK (this country!) are of great help to me.
I know Theresa married in Toronto to a William L '.....can't make out the surname he originated from MA...but they did live in Canada.....
was trying to find relatives over there as well, but I know the canadian records are hard to uncover.
Thankyou again.


so there is the question, whom did she marry ... I do not subscribe for Canadian records but on a free search I had found a marriage in York County Ontario for a Theresa Bradley to a Michael Hughes in 1926 as far as I can narrow it down I think ... there is something odd about the record though because I can not get the search to reproduce if I search for the two people the other way around

did she maybe marry as Dickinson though ?


now perhaps someone who does have access to the Canadian marriage records ( which only go to 1928 ) can check out the one you mentioned ... I can't find one that looks like that

can you give what Theresa's name was on the record and when and where the marriage was ?


... I found it,

Theressa Dickinson to William Leclair in York County

have you checked it and the details are correct, parents' names etc ... ?

if you can put them here that will help

just because I love guessing games ..................

I don't suppose she was Theresa Dickinson who married George -Bradley- ?

Marriages Sep 1907
BRADLEY George Chorlton 8c 1687
DICKINSON Theresa Backhouse Chorlton 8c 1687

there are Bradley-Dickinson births in Chorlton in 1911 and 1913 ... the births after that in Sheffield belong to a different marriage

oh ... but the two children Nora and Joseph died ...

Nora born 1911 died 1911
Joseph born 1914 died 1914

this is that couple in 1911

BRADLEY THERESA 1889 22 Chorlton Lancashire
BRADLEY GEORGE 1880 31
BRADLEY ROBERT WILLIAM 1910 10 MONTHS

... although ... that Robert seems like the only Robert William Bradley born June 1910 who died in 1972 in Chatham Kent ...



yes .............. ?

BRADLEY Theresa 1886 1914 Liverpool Canada Halifax

but there seem to have been no other Bradleys travelling with that Theresa

A number of George Bradleys about the right age ( or possibly the same one or same ones ) did travel from Liverpool to Canada in 1912, 1913 and 1914


this could be that Theresa's birth

[ deleted wrong birth see later ]

and this would be that Theresa in the 1891 census where an Ancestry user has corrected the name

[ deleted wrong family see later ]



so now if we can just be told what 'this country' is ( and whether the 'this country' she left is the same 'this country' where you want to find relatives )

and what these people's names actually are ... and what you already know about their families ...

we will all be ready to start over at the beginning :-)