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I wonder if anyone can solve a mystery that is driving me crazy?
I have a John Thomas White married 5/12/1881 to Sarah Ann Hale Welch and a death for him of 13/3/1901 but can't find a birth.
His father is John White a private in 43rd Regiment and he signed up in Enniskillen, he died in India in 1861.
The problem is that we can't find a mother of John Thomas White and so can't trace either him or his father. We think he is Irish but am not sure how to access any Irish records.
I would be so grateful if there is anyone that could jump start this for me as I am really stuck.
Thanks Sue

Sue, when was he born, and where?

Marriage:
Dorset, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921

Name: Sarah Ann Hale Welch
Birth Year: abt 1861
Age: 20
Marriage or Bann Date: 5 Dec 1881
Parish: Melcombe Regis St John
Father's name: Thoams Welch < Railway Servant
Spouse's Name: John Thomas White < AGE 29 - Assistant Warden
Spouse's Father's Name: John White < Private 43 Reg.
Witnesses: Ellen Hale & Thomas Welch

Have you found John and Sarah on any census (to confirm his birthplace)? Did they have any children?

????


Household Record 1881 British Census
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Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Charles MC CANN Officer M Male 42 Ireland Assist Warder Convict Service And Navy Pensioner
Henry NAPPIN Officer M Male 41 Boarstall, Buckingham, England Assist Warder Convict Service And Navy Pensioner
Patrick KENNEDY Officer M Male 38 Ireland Assist Warder Convict Service And Army Pensioner
---- John Thomas WHITE Officer U Male 28 Oxford, Oxford, England Assist Warder Convict Service
John TERLOWE Officer M Male 30 Gosport, Hampshire, England Assist Warder Convict Service
John IRWIN Officer U Male 26 Ireland Assist Warder Convict Service
James HENNING Officer M Male 26 Southampton, Hampshire, England Assist Warder Convict Service
John POMEROY Officer M Male 37 St Keep, Cornwall, England Assist Warder Convict Service
Henry KEEPING Officer U Male 24 Christchurch, Hampshire, England Assist Warder Convict Service
Barnabas KELLY Officer M Male 62 Ireland Civil Guard Convict Service And Army Pensioner
William WEYMAN Officer M Male 56 Obberstone, Gloucester, England Civil Guard Convict Service And Army Pensioner
John SHIRLEY Officer M Male 42 Christchurch, Hampshire, England Civil Guard Convict Service
Edward PEARCE Officer M Male 51 Portland, Dorset, England Civil Guard Convict Service
Albert JACKSON Officer M Male 40 Oldborough, Suffolk, England Civil Guard Convict Service And Navy Pensioner
John MC LEAN Officer M Male 40 Ireland Civil Guard Convict Service And Army Pensioner
Frederick GOULDING Officer M Male 40 Waltham, Berkshire, England Civil Guard Convict Service
William HODGES Officer M Male 46 Weymouth, Dorset, England Civil Guard Convict Service And Army Pensioner
William BROWN Officer M Male 41 Ireland Civil Guard Convict Service And Army Pensioner
Joseph MC COY Officer M Male 42 Ireland Civil Guard Convict Service
Charles Philip BUCKELL Officer U Male 21 Weymouth, Dorset, England Messenger Convict Service
(Continued)

Marriage to Sarah Ann was in Weymouth

Hi Marie,
Yes that is definately my gt. grandparents, I have their marriage certificates, and death certificates, but I cannot for the life of me find a birth certificate for John Thomas. As you see, his father was in the 43rd regiment, and we know his father signed up in Enniskillen Ireland, and died in India, but we have no idea where John Thomas was born or his father - if we could pinpoint a mother it would be helpful, we have searched for nearly 6 years with no luck.

Yes, John Thomas was a warder in Weymouth and that is where he and Sarah Ann met, and I know it says Oxford as where he is from, but we can't find it.
I think you lot are amazing finding all this info so quickly, but I am really hoping you can discover his birth, and maybe a mothers name.
Sue

His father John White, we know died around 1861 in India of cholera

1891 Swindon
John J White 38 Gatekeeper GWR b Oxford
Sarah A 30 wife b Wooton Bassett Wilts
Ethel M 8 b Weymouth
George E 6 b portland
Bertha E 4 b Portland
Harry P 2 b New Swindon

There is this one in 1851 -possible father
Fulwood Barracks, Lancs
John White 26 Private b ireland
Eliza White 24 b Ireland
Sarah 8 daur b ireland
but not a great deal of help as old Irish records are difficult to find or nonexistent

That is a real help, am not sure if it is the right one, but it is worth trying to check it out, do you by any chance know if that is where the 43rd regiment is based, but perhaps that is hoping for too much.
Thanks
Sue

Baptism of John White 31/6/1850 by John White and Eliza Jane.
Abode Fullwood Barracks
John White senior a Private in the 85th.

So is this the one on the 1851 census??

Maryb.

Google - 43rd (Monmouthshire) regiment of Foot had an HQ in Winchester until 1881 when it amalgamated with another regiment to form the Oxfordshire Light Infantry

Interesting piece on Wikipaedia...looks like they were in South Africa 1851-53 and then moved on to India. I don't suppose they will all have gone at the same time, though.

Any idea how old John White snr was when he died in India, Sue? Might help us to find him if he was in the UK in 1851. I did find a possible in Portsea aged 20 but born in Wakefield and I couldn't work out which regiment he was in.

I also couldn't see him in the army records on FMP - unless he changed regiments at some point.

43rd arrived in Bangalore Jan 1854 after arriving at Fort St George from England.
If john Thomas was born about 1853 then he won't have seen much of his dad.

Maryb.

Thanks for that, I do know that John White senior signed up to the 43rd regiment in Enniskillen and his first payroll was in Ireland, then went to India and died approx. 1861, so I don't think that the John White in the 85th can be the same person - what a shame, I really thought the mystery was about to be cracked.
We have no other information on him whatsoever, age, date of marriage ,name of his wife - or even the birth date of his son John Thomas other than he must of been born about 1851 to 1854 judging by the son's marriage certificate. So going on the information that the 43rd went onto India in 1853, I guess that the son most likely had been born before he signed up and went to India.
Sue

Could you tell me what FMP is, I haven't come across that site?

Sue, that would be Find My Past