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Hi Paul, if you are local to Wigan, you can go to the History Shop in Library Street. They have details of most parish records and are very helpful.

Cx

Thanks Mike, its looking like Ralph is the son of Giles.

Yes Paul you can order certificates online from the General R O.

Link
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Cost £9.25

Ralph is 24 in 1881 so don't think he's the 20 yr old lodger in 1871

Ralph is recorded as a 1 yr old in 1861
Abraham also appears in 1861 as being 10

Now I am confused :)

Yes I will try and find that birth certificate, you can order them right ?

Hopefully it is a simple case of Ralph being the son of Giles and the father of Ann Heyes.

But I am not sure if he was born Abraham or changed his name. is that what you are thinking Ginny ?

And I am wondering if this is Abraham/Ralph and has been dittoed as part of the family....yet he is a lodger


1871 England Census
about Ralph Weston
Name: Ralph Weston
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Wigan, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Pemberton
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Lamberhead Green
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Pemberton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 134
Piece: 3896
Folio: 16
Page Number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Weston 26
Mary Weston 28
Mary Topping 11
Elizebeth Topping 9
Martha Weston 2 Daughter
Ralph Weston 20 Lodger,,,,Coal miner


Paul, you need to get that birth certificate for Ann Jane Heyes and come back to us with your thoughts

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Abraham Heyes
Name: Abraham Heyes
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1851
Registration district: Wigan
Inferred County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 21
Page: 918

And then after this census 'Abraham' disapears. Maybe this is when he becomes Ralph

1861 England Census
about Abraham Heys
Name: Abraham Heys
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's name: Isreal Heys
Mother's name: Sarah Heys
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Ashton in Makerfield St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Ashton in Mackerfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Piece: 2786
Folio: 94
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Isreal Heys 52
Sarah Heys 44
Sarah Ann Heys 18
John Heys 16
Charles Heys 12
Abraham Heys 10
William Heys 6
Margaret Heys 3
Frances Hornby 21
James Hornby 20

1861 census
Address Broom Street
Parish Ince In Makerfield
District Wigan, Pemberton
Administrative County Lancashire

Householder 1
Name Giles Heyes
Age 42
Estimated Year of Birth 1819
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Coal Miner
Birth Place Aspull
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 2
Name Mary Heyes
Age 40
Estimated Year of Birth 1821
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Aspull
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 3
Name Eliza Heyes
Age 18
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Colliery Labourer
Birth Place Aspull
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 4
Name Henry Heyes
Age 12
Estimated Year of Birth 1849
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Colliery Labourer
Birth Place Aspull Lancashire, Wales
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 5
Name Margt Heyes
Age 15
Estimated Year of Birth 1846
Relationship to Head of Household Scholar
Occupation Colliery Labourer
Birth Place Aspull
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 6
Name Giles Heyes
Age 7
Estimated Year of Birth 1854
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Aspull Lancashire, Wales
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 7
Name James Heyes
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1858
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Aspull Lancashire, Wales
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 8
Name Ralph Heyes
Age 1
Estimated Year of Birth 1860
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Aspull Lancashire, Wales
Birth County Lancashire

Margaret Heyes born 1874 is down as stepdaughter for Ralph

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1874
TICKLE Margaret - Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE


So maybe Ellen wasn't married previously if this is Margaret's birth as Tickle.

Im wondering if Ralph and Abraham are the same person as I cant see Abraham with an Ellen and all the children I listed on the censues

Anyone else got any ideas or can spot Abraham and Ellen, I might be missing something

The first thing you need is Ann Jane's birth certificate to make sure you are following the correct parents.


Births Mar 1885
Heyes Ann Jane - Wigan 8c 70

Hi PollyPoppet,

I am thinking that Giles is Ralphs father as in the 1871 census, I just wasn't 100 % sure that I had the right father as there were a few Heyes and more than one Ralph but I am 80% that Giles was his dad and that Giles is Ann Heyes, Grandad ?

possible for ralph

1871 census
Address Whelley
Parish Wigan
District Wigan, Wigan
Administrative County Lancashire

Householder 1
Name Giles Heyes
Age 50
Estimated Year of Birth 1821
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 2
Name Margaret Heyes
Age 47
Estimated Year of Birth 1824
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 3
Name Charles Heyes
Age 18
Estimated Year of Birth 1853
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 4
Name Ralph Heyes
Age 14
Estimated Year of Birth 1857
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 5
Name James Heyes
Age 12
Estimated Year of Birth 1859
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 6
Name Robert Heyes
Age 9
Estimated Year of Birth 1862
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Householder 7
Name Mary Heyes
Age 7
Estimated Year of Birth 1864
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Lancashire
Birth County Lancashire

Or even this one ...

Births Mar 1858 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hayes Ralph Wigan 8c 62

As he puts his birthplace as Aspull. That comes under Wigan.

There are these 2 possibles...

First one might be more likely unless he was beefing up his age in the census, being married to an older woman !


Births Dec 1857
Heyes Ralph - Wigan 8c 15


Births Dec 1858
Heyes Ralph - Wigan 8c 11

Are you sure her father was Ralph. The maiden for the births that I posted is Tickle


Marriages Mar 1876
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bibby James Wigan 8c 112
Carr Ann Wigan 8c 112
HEYES Abraham Wigan 8c 112 <<<<<
Tickle Ellen Wigan 8c 112 <<<<<<

Can't see a likely marriage for Ralph Heyes/ Hayes ... Wondering about this one ...

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1877

HAGUE Ralph - RIGBY Ellen
Leigh Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh




Marriages Jun 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hague Ralph Leigh 8c 278
Pomfret Ellen Leigh 8c 278
Rigby Ellen Leigh 8c 278
Whittle John Leigh 8c 278



Also looks like Ellen married previously. ( mentions step daughter in 1881)

Thank you,

This looks like the right family, does anybody have a clue who the father of Ralph is ? The Granfather f Ann and her family ?

Paul

possible

1901 census
Address 2 Kendrick St
Civil Parish Wigan
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet
Ecclesiastical Parish Wigan St Catherines
Parliamentary Borough or Division Wigan
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Wigan
Administrative County Lancashire

Householder 1
Name Alice Heyes
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 22
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation Cotton Ring Spinner
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Wigan
Language
Infirmity

Householder 2
Name Anne Jane Heyes
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 16
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation Cotton Reeler
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Wigan
Language
Infirmity

Householder 3
Name Elizabeth Heyes
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 22
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation ...
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Wigan
Language
Infirmity

Householder 4
Name Ellen Heyes
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 49
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Wigan
Language
Infirmity

Householder 5
Name Mary E Heyes
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 20
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation Cotton Winder
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Wigan
Language
Infirmity

Householder 6
Name Ralph Heyes
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 45
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Coal Hewer
Employment Status
Where Born Lanc Aspull
Language
Infirmity

HEYES Ann Jane Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE WIG/153/386

Her siblings

HEYES Alice Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE WIG/127/472

HEYES Elizabeth Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE WIG/127/473

HEYES Mary Ellen Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE WIG/136/92

HEYES Joseph Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE WIG/145/94

HEYES Ann Jane Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE WIG/153/386

HEYES Emily Wigan Wigan & Leigh TICKLE WIG/162/283