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on the Electoral Register for 1938 - 31 Medina Road
Wlliam Laurence Graham was listed as husband
Gertrude Lillian Harrison as wife
Muriel Sheila Therese Graham as daughter

Gertrude and Muriel reappear on the 1947 Electroral Register for - 141 Blackstock Road with Muriels second husband Thomas Duncan Bell.

Selected U.S. Naturalization Records - Original Documents, 1790-1974 about William Lawrence Graham
Name: William Lawrence Graham
State: New York
Court Type: District Court
Court Location: Southern District, New York
Naturalization Record Type: Petition for Naturalization
Naturalization Record Number: 292865
Roll Description: (Roll 0925) Petition No. 237995 - Petition No. 238350
Archive: National Archives, Washington, D.C.
Collection Title: Petitions for Naturalization from the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944
Archive Series: M1972
Archive Roll: 1085

wifre Gertrude secured divorce about 1930 because of my prolonged absence

You beat me to searching military records -- I wandered off to see whether I'd found my grx3 grandmother dying in Scotland, but no joy after all. ;)

which goes with the marriage posted on p.1

Marriages Sep 1915
Graham William L Ibbetson Bradford 9b 553
Ibbetson Gertrude L Graham Bradford 9b 553

Births Jun 1891
GRAHAM William Lawrence Bradford, Y. 9b 162

All as Jan posted earlier.


If we could only get an answer to where the name Gertrude Lilian Harrison came from.

Could John Percy Harrison have been a second partner/husband?

I'm leaning towards this one

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 about William Lawrence Graham
Name: William Lawrence Graham
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Age at enlistment: 25
Residence: 15 Roundhay Rd, Leeds
Document Year: 1917
Regimental Number: 87945
Regiment Name: Army Service Corps ??
Number of images: 36

3 rydal St Bradford

wife ?
Gertrude Lilian Ibbetson, spinster goes with brummiejans idea

child Muriel Graham ibbetson 1915 Bowling. 30 th June

Births Sep 1915 (>99%)
Ibbetson Muriel G Ibbetson Bradford 9b 150


He is still chasing his medals in 1938 correspondence post restante address British Consul, New York City


previuos Cousin Reg W Whitehead 155 Roundhay RD Leeds

my second question is how you know her mother.s name is Gertrude , which was asked earlier ?

I just added his 1881 census to my post above -- uncle, I wonder??


edit -- we don't have a Gertrude Harrison + Graham marriage certificate, is the problem, if that's what you meant!

not much help
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image
HARRISON, John Percy Head Single M 35 1876 Railway Clerk G E R Essex Stratford VIEW
NEWSOME, Frances Mary Servant Single F 60 1851 Housekeeper Yorkshire Gt Garmersall VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9757 Reference:
RG14PN9757 RG78PN514B RD188 SD10 ED83 SN274

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
Walthamstow Enumeration District:
83 Parish:
Woodford

Address:
2 North View Gordon Road Woodford Essex

good, my first question is, from her marriage cert , what is her father,s name and occupation, is he alive ?

A John P Harrison death in Islington that could be worth looking at:

Name: John P Harrison
Death Registration Month/Year: 1944 Q1
Age at death (estimated): 67 = dob c1876-77
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1b
Page: 326


Two possible matching births:

Births Jun 1876
Harrison John Percy West Ham 4a 6
Births Dec 1876
Harrison John Percy Barton 8c 622

This would be the West Ham one in 1881 in West Ham:

John Harrison 56
Jane E. Harrison 41
Charles Harrison 25
Walter Harrison 20
John P. Harrison 5


Was the person on the ER Gertrude's father? brother? child born before marriage? Hmm.

I think we still don't know how you know that Gertrude's birth surname was Harrison. Can you tell us that?

Lindsey I havent withdrawn my tree, I will try to find out why you cant see it.

Gertrude, Laurence and Muriel were all listed as living at 31 Medina Road, Islington in 1938 on the Electoral Roll. There was a John Percy Harrison listed for 1937 only.

Muriels marriage certificate to Thomas Bell states that she was divorced from Leonard but doesnt say when.

Muriel and Leonard had a son 'John Leonard Wiliams' 15 Dec 1938, born 31 Medina Road.

Muriel and Thomas had a daughter 'Josephine Eileen Bell' 20 June 1947, born 141 Blackstock Road. I was also born at this address.

I have been told there is a sister Patricia but I dont know if she is of Leonard or Thomas.

brummiejan - My sisters checked the Hastings certificate and called the home and they said it wasnt her - I am waiting to see the certificate.

I will update my genes tree this evening - once again a big Thank You for your help.

Janey - I have replied to the first set of messages that I recieved, thanks to Cynthia for letting me know how to get to the threads.

I will read through the messages properly and reply to them, and I do have a tree on ancestry.

Muriel is my Grandmother.

It really would help if Debbie would give complete information. Debbie, it doesn't help that *you* know something, e.g. Muriel's marriages. It makes no sense to ask people for help to find *more* info and ask them to start with *less* info than you have!

You were asked how you know Muriel's mother's name -- ?

Did Muriel have children in either of her first two marriages? Is her birth surname on their birth records Graham?

Do you know anything about when Muriel's parents died? Other children they had? Probably not, but we'd still like to know the answers.

Given the location of Muriel's 1945 marriage, this looks like a possibility for mother Gertrude's death:

Name: Gertrude L Graham
Death Registration Month/Year: 1953
Age at death (estimated): 62 = dob c1891
> Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 733

-edit- I see that is the death shown on the Ancestry tree as posted by Lindsey above while I was typing.

But this birth would have made her 63 on that death date:

Births Mar 1890
Harrison Gertrude Lilian Hull 9d 281

If you don't know when father William died -- no indication on the 1945 marriage certificate that William was deceased?

Is the tree on Ancestry that Mary quoted yours? If not, do you know the tree owner? I don't putz around with trees at Ancestry, myself. If there's info there that relates to this thread, it would be wise to put it here.

I don't think you've told us your connection with Muriel, and that could help guide anyone trying to help.



edit

"and now it says tree withdrawn ?"

So Debbie's reading this thread and just not bothering to acknowledge replies??

Is this the tree info ?
Name: Gertrude L Graham
Birth: 1891
Death: Jul-Aug-Sep 1953 (Jul 1953) - Islington, London
Spouse: William Laurence Graham

because we still have no info from Debbie ?

and now it says tree withdrawn ?

There are one or two vague possibles with a similar occupation but none seem very likely!
Jan

Thisis the 1911 one I posted about.
William Lawrie Graham son of Peter and Marion Galloway nee Lawrie.

Peter (Dad ) died 1913 and left £2,252 13s 1d to son William Lawri Comercial traveller ,son Archibald and Thomas kay surgeon.

Marion of Honeypot lane Kingsbury died 1939 left £106. 9 s4d to William lawrie Graham Schoolmaster.

So maybe we can rule that family out!!!


Maryb

EDIT Debbie says William Lawrence Graham in 1945 was a Dental Mechanic,if that is her tree on Ancestry.

I would like to know how you know Gertrude's name? It would help to know William's occupation too, on the off-chance he can be found 1911.
Jan

1911??
33,Bowerdean St
Fulham
Peter Graham 1864 Glasgow
Marion married 25 years 1861 glasgow
William L 1889 Glasgow Traveller and Bookeeper.

There is a Gertrude Lillian Harrison born 1890.

Debbie has tree on Ancestry I think with Gertrude 1891 - 1953.

Maryb

Had a wild guess, but not very likely is it? I agree, better to look at Scottish records.

Marriages Sep 1915 (>99%)
Graham William L Ibbetson Bradford 9b 553
Ibbetson Gertrude L Graham Bradford 9b 553

Births Sep 1915 (>99%)
Ibbetson Muriel G Ibbetson Bradford 9b 150

Births Jun 1890 (>99%)
Ibbetson Gertrude Lilian Bradford, Y. 9b 176

Births Jun 1891 (>99%)
GRAHAM William Lawrence Bradford, Y. 9b 162

The only record on freebmd for William laurence Graham is a birth in 1904.....clearly not relevant.

This family must have been in Scotland, Ireland or elsewhere.......

If you purchase her death cert, you should find out her birthplace........assuming that the info was known accurately by the person who registered the death