Find Ancestors

Hi does anyone have access to criminal records, i am trying to find info on john harris born approx 1883 living in thames ditton surrey around 1915. i cannot find any trace of him after 1915 and i know he was a bit of a bad boy. thanks sue

1915, that's WW1. Have you not considered that he joined the army and was maybe killed in the war?

Where was he born and who were his parents?

Hi catherine, i must admit i had'nt thought of that. all i was told by my mum that there was some trouble in the family. when mum asked what it was she was told basically to stay out of it and mind her own business. so the big secret died with my nan. i do not know who his parents were or where he was born. in fact i could say i no nothing about him except he was my great grandfather. he was married to florence ( nee comfort) in kingston surrey. it is highly unlikely he joined the army. he was always on the wrong side of the law, so my mum thinks. regards sue

As he married Florence Comfort in 1902 it is possible that he was born a little earlier than 1883.

Marriages Dec 1902 (>99%)
Comfort Florence Kingston 2a 752
Harris John Kingston 2a 752

Have you found him on the 1911 census ?

This may be him in 1901. Connections being his name, the place where he married and the name of the 5 year old in the household:

1901:

Name: John Harris
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Harris
Mother's Name: Eliza Harris
Gender: Male
Where born: Kingston, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Kingston On Thames
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Kingston
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 130
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Harris 43
Eliza Harris 38
John Harris 21
Edward Comfort 5

Hi Jonesey, yes that is him, i have seen this on the census, edward comfort was a nephew.. but its after 1915 i am after, he had his last child with florence then ( thomas harris) after that there is no trace of him, thats why i am thinking maybe he was in prison. regards sue

If he was born c1880 even if he was in prison post 1915 if he remained in England his death should appear somewhere in the registers.

This would appear to be his birth registration which will give a clue when looking at the death register.

Births Jun 1879 (>99%)
Harris John Kingston 2a 313

Thanks i have another look regards sue

possible birth of Florence:-

Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
Comfort Florence Kingston 2a 332

1891
Name: Florence Comfort
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Comfort
Mother's Name: Sarah Comfort
Gender: Female
Where born: Kingston, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Kingston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Kingston
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Comfort 54
Sarah Comfort 52
Edward Comfort 16
William Comfort 13
Florence Comfort 7
Ann Dingwell 53
Robert Check 34

1901
Name: Florrie Comfort
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Sarah Comfort
Gender: Female
Where born: Kingston, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Kingston On Thames
Ecclesiastical parish: Kingston on Thames St Luke
Town: Kingston On Thames
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Laundress

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 80
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Comfort 63 - widow
Florrie Comfort 19

Do you know what happened to Florence?

Their children?


Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
Harris Rose D Comfort Kingston 2a 878

Births Sep 1914 (>99%)
HARRIS Elsie E M Comfort Kingston 2a 879

Births Dec 1915 (>99%)
Harris Thomas C J Comfort Kingston 2a 824

There are these two also, but as there is another marriage Harris - Comfort in 1914 then these possibly belong to the other couple:-

Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Harris Margaret C Comfort Wandsworth 1d 1080

Births Mar 1917 (>99%)
Harris John S A Comfort Epsom 2a 20


Have you bought any of the children's marriage certs. to see if he was alive at the time of marriage. If he was not, then he should be noted as deceased, which will narrow a death date down?

Name: Thomas C J Harris
Spouse Surname: Humphreys
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1937
Registration district: Surrey North Eastern
Registration county (inferred): Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 176
spouse:- Ivy G A

Name: Thomas Charles J Harris
Birth Date: 24 Nov 1915
Death Registration Month/Year: 1976
Registration district: Surrey Northern
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 17
Page: 0304

.......so he stayed in the area!

for ref:-

1911
HARRIS, Florence Head Married 8 years F 29 1882 Sy Kingston VIEW
HARRIS, Florence Daughter F 7 1904 School Sy Kingston VIEW
HARRIS, Nelly Eliza Daughter F 6 1905 School Sy Kingston VIEW
HARRIS, Eliza F 2 1909 Sy Kingston VIEW
HARRIS, Violet Louisa F 0 (3 MONTHS) 1911 Sy Kingston VIEW
COMFORT, Edward Nephew M 15 1896 Vanboy Oilman Sy Kingston VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3512 Reference:
RG14PN3512 RG78PN131 RD40 SD2 ED15 SN27

Registration District:
Kingston Sub District:
Kingston Enumeration District:
15 Parish:
Kingston on Thames

Address:
60 Canbury Park Road County:
Surrey

6 children - 4 living and 2 dead.

John is not present, so could this be him?

1911
RANDALL, A Head Married M 42 1869 Engineering Smith Kingston on Thames VIEW
RANDALL, Emma Wife F 42 1869 Kingston on Thames VIEW
MOORE, Thomas Nurse Child M 1 1910 Croydon VIEW
ETHERIDGE, George Boarder Single M 48 1863 Labourer Horsham VIEW
HARRIS, Thomas Father In Law Widower M 54 1857 Labourer Kingston on Thames VIEW
HARRIS, John Nephew Married M 30 1881 Labourer Kingston on Thames VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3360 Reference:
RG14PN3360 RG78PN126 RD39 SD3 ED38 SN136

Registration District:
Croydon Sub District:
West Croydon Enumeration District:
38 Parish:
Croydon

Address:
15 Crossland Road Thornton Heath Surrey County:
Surrey

...........does look to be him as he is noted as being married for 8yrs and having 6 children - 4 living and 2 dead.

Have you considered the possibility that he emmigrated?

Hi Catherine, yes i do know what happened to florence, she re-married in 1920 to george reeves and went on to have three more children, margaret reeves. veenie reeves and georgina reeves but i have been told that georgina died when she was very young. also on your message you have violet louisa russell ( she was my nan) thankyou so much for your help i really appreciate it. may i ask do you use another site as well as this one, because i am thinking of joining another one but i need some advise on which one.

Susan,

What is Florence's marital status shown as on her 1920 marriage certificate to George Reeves? Was she shown as a widow or divorcee or indeed any other status?

I notice that she re-married using her previously married name, Harris. Divorce was still very much the prerogative of only the wealthy in 1920. Presumably her former husband had still been on the scene in 1915 when their last child Thomas was born. Only 5 years had elapsed which I think may have been insufficient time for her to have her first marriage declared over due to desertion so perhaps her first husband may have been dead by then.

Hi jonesey, i have looked through the death records from 1915 through to 1920 and i have found nothing on john harris. i not sure what to do next regards sue

Susan,

The best thing in my opinion would be to obtain a copy of the 1920 marriage certificate if you have not yet got it. Then you can see how Florence is described, Widow ect.

At the beginning of this thread someone suggested that maybe John Harris had been involved in WW1. If he was and was killed overseas no record of his death would appear in the UK death records.

Similarly if he had left these shores for any other reason and subsequently died elsewhere his death would not be recorded in the usual UK registers. You might also check outgoing passenger lists as he may have abandoned his family and emigrated.

Maybe that latter option is a possibility especially as if it sounds as if he may have been a dubious character perhaps avoiding justice.

Hello Susan,

I use "ancestry.co.uk" for most of my research. They have all the census records (although not full 1911), bmd up to 2005, military records and lots lots more. Have a look to see exactly what they do offer and if you think it looks interesting then they do a 14 day free trial so you can check it out properly.
Personally I find it invaluable and I find the subs relatively inexpensive to the amount of information they provide.

Back to your thread, WW1 started in 1914 and finished in 1918 which does seem to coincide with the disappearance of John in 1915 and the remarriage of Florence in 1920 so I would look a little closer into this theory. If he was ' a bit of a lad ' as you say and you really don't think that he joined up, then it is also possible that he left so as not to go off and fight. (yet another theory?).
It would be wise to follow Jonesey's advice and see what her marital status was on her second marriage cert.

Catherine

Hi thank you very much to catherine and jonesey for all your help. just to let you know catherine i am taking your advise and i will join ancestry. i have been thinking about it for a while. but as you say its a bit expensive but invaluable. thanks again regards sue

Susan,

Take Ancestry's offer of a 14 day free trial first. It is a very good site.

Another slightly cheaper way to Ancestry is to purchase a copy of Family Tree Maker 2011 which is available from many different sources such as Amazon.com

Depending upon which version you buy the software includes up to 6 month membership of Ancestry and is usually much less than the cost of Ancestry membership alone.