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Hi

No, we had no success in locating them, below you will see part of an email from my cousin in Ohio she is the Gt. Grandaughter of the eldest child William Graham b. 1851, he emigrated to the USA in 1880:

[Hi, Do you have access to the 1851 Census? I found something curious and it is probably nothing but you may recall that in 1861, two of the children of our Charles and Ann - William and Robert - are recorded as born in Dearham. Over time I have searched the 1851 for Charles and Ann but they seem to be non-existent. I did some creative search on Ancestry (our genealogy society has an institutional subscription) and found a Charles Simmeral age 23 b. Kirklington, and Ann age 21 b. FLIMBY in Dearham on page 638. I can find no trace of Charles Simmeral in 1841 or 1861. Is it possible that our Charles either assumed the name Simmeral or assumed the name Graham???? A little implosible but I remember your William Foulds used the name Higginbottom for a while.

In 1841, I found a Charles Graham age 15 in Arturet in the houseld of Eliz. Baty, and also a Charles Graham age 10 in St. Cuthbert in the household of a John Graham. Of course, Charles' second marriage record stated his father was William Graham but ........???]

We got no further from this, which is one of the reasons I thought I would ask for 'fresh eyes' to see if we missed anything.

Have you got the family in 1851?
Thanks

Hi MarieCeleste

This is the family in 1871 as you can see the enumerator has misspelled Graham as Gream and Charles gives his birthplace as Cumberland, his second marriage is entered on the GRO twice in Mary's name, once as Mary Linner and the other entry as Linnen both entries have the same Vol/Page No they married Aug 1865 Tynemouth.:

1871 Census, Houghton-le-Spring District
Family Number: 17216.7
Hetton-le-Hole with Easington Lane 1871 Census, Hetton-le-Hole, Caroline Street (RG10/4983/folio 72 page 35)
Charles Gream [Graham], Head, married, 45, Coal Miner, born Cumberland
Mary Gream [Graham], Wife, married, 33, born Ireland
William Gream [Graham], son, 19, Coal Miner, born Cumberland
Robert Gream [Graham], son, 17, Coal Miner, born Cumberland
Jane A. Gream [Graham], daughter, 11, Scholar, born Cumberland
Tom(?) G. [George] Gream [Graham], son, 9, Scholar, born Northumberland [Note: George in 1881]
Catherine Gream [Graham], daughter, 9, Scholar, born Cumberland
Thomas Gream [Graham], son, 3, born County Durham
Elizabeth Gream [Graham], daughter, 1, born County Durham

And again 1881

1881 Census, Houghton-le-Spring District
Family Number: 19625.8
1881 Census, Hetton-le-Hole with Easington Lane - 8 Low Street West
Charles Graham, Head, married, 55, Coal Miner, born Ireland
Mary Graham, Wife, married, 43, born Ireland
George Graham, son, 19, Coal Miner, born Cramlington, Northumberland
Kate Graham, daughter, 18, born Cockermouth, Cumberland
Thomas Graham, son, 13, Colliery Putter, born Philadelphia, County Durham
Elizabeth Graham, daughter, 11, Scholar, born Newbottle, County Durham
Mary Graham, daughter, 9, Scholar, born Hetton-le-Hole, County Durham
James Graham, son, 4, Scholar, born Seaham Colliery, County Durham
Maria Graham, daughter, 2, born Hetton Downs, County Durham
Margaret Graham, daughter, 8 months, born Hetton Downs, County Durham
Martin Duffy, lodger, 21, Coal Miner, born Wigan, Lancashire
Thomas Duffy, lodger, 20, Coal Miner, born Wigan, Lancashire
George Blackett, lodger, 20, Coal Miner, born Sunderland, County Durham

Hi Bluebell, where exactly was Charles living in 1871 and what was the name of his new wife?

This might help us track what has happened.

This is a different version of the 1841 census that Patchem posted. Note the difference in ages - I've checked the original and I believe this version to be correct.

BETHWAITE, William M 40 1801 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, Jane F 40 1801 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, Joseph M 21 1820 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, Ann F 17 1824 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, Margret F 12 1829 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, William M 10 1831 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, Robert M 8 1833 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, Zella F 6 1835 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, John M 4 1837 Cumberland
BETHWAITE, John M 19 1822 Cumberland

Registration District: Cockermouth Sub District: Maryport

Civil Parish: Flimby Municipal Borough:

Address: Flimby Village, Flimby County: Cumberland

I doubt very much that a family would call two sons John while both were still alive. Could the 4 year old John actually be the son of one of the others?

(I know this isn't finding Anne's marriage, but you never know where things might lead .....)

We too have thought there may have been a 'borders' marriage, but no success in locating it, Charles Graham gives 3 different places of birth on consecutive census, Scotland, Cumberland and Ireland, his second wife originated in Ireland, we know from the second marriage cert that his father's name is WIlliam Graham and that is where we have been stuck for the past 7 year, I thought posting it here fresh eyes may pick up some thing we have over looked. Many thanks to you both patchem and Mike* for your efforts

Mike*,
I was thinking Scotland.
But my ancestry is playing up, and Scotland 1851 does not exist.

No marriage for Ann Bethwaite on freebmd

Maybe they married in Scotland where Charles was from

There is also the possibility that Anne Bethwaite was George's Mother, and another Ann (Woods) was William's,( Robert and Jane's) Mother.

Thank you I will come back to this tomorrow good night

Ann's family in 1841:
1841 England Census
William Bethwaite
Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801 Gender: Male Where born: Cumberland, England Civil parish: Flimby
Hundred: Allerdale above Derwent County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Cockermouth Sub-registration district: Maryport

William Bethwaite 40 engine man
Jane Bethwaite 40
Joseph Bethwaite 4 Added: No, is 21 Coal Miner
Ann Bethwaite 17
Margret Bethwaite 12
William Bethwaite 10
Robert Bethwaite 8
Lella Bethwaite 6 (Zella)
John Bethwaite 12
John Bethwaite 19

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 162; Book: 4; Civil Parish: Flimby; County: Cumberland; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 6; Page: 7; Line: 8; GSU roll: 241279.

William appears to have remarried by 1851, and many children elsewhere.

Oh! I have just seen yout further posts, I don't think she could have married before, yes this is her baptism and parents

I'm off to bed now, thanks for your efforts I will check again tomorrow

ANN BETHWAITE
Christening: 07 JUN 1826 Flimby, Cumberland, England
Father: WILLIAM BETHWAITE Mother: JANE C035572

Any possibility Ann had been married before, so Bethwaite is her maiden name, and Woods from her first marriage?

Yes this is the family on 1861 Census, Anne died at some point after the birth of the last child again unable to pinpoint death as so many Anne Graham's but Charles had re-married by the 1871 Census and living in County Durham

Thanks patchem and Mike * Yes have access to census, I got Annes surname from the birth cert of George the child born Cramlington, I would have thought the marriage would have been in Cumberland

For reference:
1861 England Census
Charles Graham
Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Graham Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil parish: Cramlington Colliery Ecclesiastical parish: Seghill County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Occupation: coal miner Registration district: Tynemouth Sub-registration district: Blyth ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 106

Charles Graham 36
Ann Graham 36 Cumberland
William Graham 10
Robert Graham 7
Janes Ann Graham 2

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3851; Folio: 60; Page: 21; GSU roll: 543196.

Where did you get Anne's surname from ?

There is this marriage but no Bethwaite - there is however an Ann Woods

Marriages Jun 1851
Graham Charles - Newcastle T 25 400

Have you got the 1851 census?
Thanks