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Thanks again Liz for all your hard work - you certainly seem to have solved the problem. I never thought of the witness being her younger sister.

It is rather strange that there seems to be two families with the middle name Falconer - Henry Falconer Grant and Isabella Falconer Grant and they both emigrated to Canada. I suppose they must be connected somewhere down the line.

Also I wonder where the name Anderson came from as the mother's maiden name is McInnes and often the maiden name is given as a middle name.

I assume you got most of your information from Ancestry which is something I have never signed up for. Anyway it is very good of you to look things up for me - thanks again.

Hooray Jean, I think I've finally cracked it. I looked at the birth of an Isabella Salem Grant in Scotland but could not find one. Salem is definitely not a Scottish name, and it was confusing me, but I did find one for Isabella Falconer Grant. Born Cedar Street (same as Johanna and same as the 1901 census) 3 June 1902 to William Grant, oil mill machinist and Johanna nee McInnes.

So it was Johanna's younger sister, not cousin, who was witness at her wedding.

Looking at the church records For Isabella's wedding, Salem should definitely read Falconer.

Liz

Sister Isabella's marriage. This one names the parents as William Grant and Johanna McInnes and has Peter, Marjorie, Mrs William Grant and William as witnesses.

Quebec Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1967
about Isabella Salem Grant
Name: Isabella Salem Grant
Spouse: James Mclean of Detroit, Michigan. Son of Jonathan McLean and wife, Jean Brown.
Event Year: 1925
Event: Mariage (Marriage)
Religion: Presbyterian
Place of Worship or Institution: Montréal (Presbyterian Fairmount Taylor)
Province: Québec


Married at the same Place of Worship that Johanna was.

Jean, are you still there? I found a Johanna Anderson Grant's birth in Lanark in 1899. Her parents were William, an oil mill machinist, and Johanna nee McInnes. They were married March 29 1895 in Milton Glasgow.
I can't find anything to connect her to your family definitely but it is a huge coincidence that they also emigrated to Quebec.

Anyway here are the records for the family.


1901 Scotland Census
about Johnna Andrson Grant
Name: Johnna Andrson Grant
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's name: William Grant
Mother's name: Johanna Grant
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/8
Registration district: Milton
Civil Parish: Glasgow St George in The Fields
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 55 Cedar St
ED: 28
Household schedule number: 145
Line: 19
Roll: CSSCT1901_294
Household Members:
Name Age
William Grant 31 St Giles, Edinburghshire, storeman
Johanna Grant 27 Glasgow, Lanarkshire
William Grant 5 Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Johnna Andrson Grant 1



Passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Name: Johanna GRANT
Date of departure: 25 April 1913
Port of departure: Glasgow
Destination port: Quebec
Destination country: Canada
Date of Birth: 1900 (calculated from age)
Age: 13
Marital Status:
Sex: Female
Occupation: Scholar
Notes:
Passenger recorded on: Page 14 of 36
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Archd GRANT 11 Months
Bernard GRANT 3
Isabella GRANT 10
Mrs Johanna GRANT 37
Marjory GRANT 6
Peter GRANT 8
Wm GRANT 17 laborer
Ship: SATURNIA
Official Number: 129489
Master's name: David Taylor
Steamship Line: Donaldson
Where bound: Montreal, Canada
Square feet: 33585
Registered tonnage: 5494
Passengers on voyage: 1221


Canada, Soldiers of the First World War, 1914-1918
about William Grant
Name: William Grant, oil miller of 555 Marquette St, Montreal
Residence: Montred, Quebec
Birth Date: 24 Feb 1872
Birth Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Relative: Mrs Gonnanna M Grant
Relationship: Wife
Regiment Number: 228884

Thanks Liz for all that info - it will take me a while to take it all in.

Apparently it is not at all easy to get a copy of a Canadian marriage certificate - the 100 year rule etc,etc - so someone looked it up for me (but don't know how). There were no parent's names and Isabella Falconer Grant was given as a witness. So I presumed that she was a cousin of Johanna and that their fathers were brothers but it looks as if this may not be corrrect.

I have found a birth for Henry Falconer Grant On Free BMD in March 1851 in Clifton but have not found a birth for Charles A Grant, only a birth for Charles William in 1854 in Clifton.

So not quite sure where to go next as it is the Anderson Grant family I am really interested in, but will check out Lady Isabella on line.

Thanks again for all that information which I will go through very carefully.

Jean

Quebec Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1967
about Johanna Anderson Grant
Name: Johanna Anderson Grant
Spouse: Ralph Sydney John King
Event Year: 1923
Event: Mariage (Marriage)
Religion: Presbyterian
Place of Worship or Institution: Montréal (Presbyterian Fairmount Taylor)
Province: Québec



There must surely be a certificate you can purchase that has their parents names on? Sorry I know nothing about Canadian certificates.

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about Charles Adrian Grant
Name: Charles Adrian Grant
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1857
Christening Date: 7 Jul 1857
Christening Place: Clifton, Gloucestershire, England
Father's name: Henry Grant
Mother's name: Isabella Catherine

Are you sure Charles had Anderson as a second name? I have found a document naming him as Charles Adrian. His parents, the above mentioned Henry and Lady Isabella Catherine, were wanting to sell property in Clifton, Gloucs, to a man who lived at 4 Prince's Buildings, Clifton. They lived at no 15 so it does seem as though this is your family.
This is the link extremely long.

http://find.galegroup.com/bncn/retrieve.do?subjectParam=Locale%2528en%252C%252C%2529%253AFQE%253D%2528tx%252CNone%252C20%2529henry%2Bfalconer%2Bgrant%2524&contentSet=LTO&sort=DateAscend&tabID=T012&sgCurrentPosition=0&subjectAction=DISPLAY_SUBJECTS&prodId=BNCN&retrieveFormat=MULTIPAGE_DOCUMENT&searchId=R1¤tPosition=1&userGroupName=lancs&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&sgHitCountType=None&qrySerId=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3AFQE%3D%28tx%2CNone%2C20%29henry+falconer+grant%24&inPS=true&searchType=BasicSearchForm&displaySubject=&&docId=&docLevel=FASCIMILE&workId=&relevancePageBatch=Y3206715597&contentSet=BNCN&callistoContentSet=BNCN&docPage=article&hilite=y


According to online papers Isabella died on the 8th Feb. One says in Truro, which I can't find, and the other 7 papers say Tours, France.
That is why they are not to be found in 1871.

There is so much you can find by googling this family. I have found a descendant who is from Jamaica, the family had plantations there, and is a cousin of Colin Powell, retired general and now statesman in US.
Birth certificates are definitely called for.

This is the family in 1851 though. Curioser and curioser.

GRANT, Henry Head Married M 41 1810 Retired Officer Army
Bath
Somerset VIEW
GRANT, Isabella C Wife Married F 26 1825 Rt Honble Lady
Scotland VIEW
GRANT, Henry F Son M 0 (1 MOS) 1851
Bristol Clifton VIEW
DUNCAN, Anne Servant Unmarried F 44 1807 House Serv
Scotland VIEW
LODGE, Sarah Servant Unmarried F 31 1820 House Serv
Bath
Somerset VIEW
HEDGER, Mary Servant Unmarried F 39 1812 House Serv
Whitechapel
Middlesex VIEW
THOMAS, Mary Servant Unmarried F 26 1825 House Serv
Elberton
Gloucestershire VIEW
JAMES, Martha Servant Unmarried F 16 1835 House Serv
West Dean
Gloucestershire VIEW
HOLLAND, John Servant Unmarried M 22 1829 House Serv
Stapleton
Gloucestershire VIEW
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
1952 Folio:
21 Page:
35

Registration District:
Clifton Sub District:
Clifton Enumeration District:
1A Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Clifton Municipal Borough:
Bristol Clifton Address:
15, Princes Buildings, Clifton, Bristol Clifton County:
Gloucestershire


1861

GRANT, Henry Head Married M 51 1810 Retired Officer
Bath
Somersetshire VIEW
GRANT, Isabella G Wife Married F 36 1825
Edinburgh VIEW
GRANT, Henry J Son M 10 1851 Scholar
Clifton
Gloucestershire VIEW
GRANT, Charles A Son M 8 1853
Clifton
Gloucestershire VIEW
LODGE, Sarah C Servant Unmarried F 41 1820 Lodge Maid
Bath
Somersetshire VIEW
HONGER, Mary Servant Unmarried F 43 1818 Nurse
Whitechapel London VIEW
HONGER, Ann Servant Widow F 54 1807 Cook
Taunton
Somersetshire VIEW
HONGER, Louisa E Servant Unmarried F 37 1824 Waiting Maid
Bristol St Augustine VIEW
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
1725 Folio:
106 Page:
1

Registration District:
Clifton Sub District:
1 Clifton Enumeration District:
4 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Clifton Parish Church

Civil Parish:
Clifton Municipal Borough:
Bristol Address:
15, Princes Buildings, Clifton, Bristol County:
Gloucestershire


From http://thepeerage.com/p34550.htm. I don't think we found her in the US?

Isabella Catherine Keith-Falconer was the daughter of Anthony Adrian Keith-Falconer, 7th Earl of Kintore and Louisa Hawkins.2 She married Henry Grant on 4 August 1847.1 She died on 8 February 1870.1
From 4 August 1847, her married name became Grant.

No, you can totally ignore the previous postings. Have found this. Strange about the eldest son's name and year of birth though.

Lady Isabella Catherine Keith Falconer born June 5 1824 was the oldest child of Anthony Adrian Keith Falconer the 7th Earl of Kintore and 9th Lord Falconer of Halkerton, She married Aug, 4 1847 Henry Grant of Conglaton East Loathian Scotland and they had a son May 1 1851 Henry Falconer Grant Born in Keith Hall Kintore! Lady Isabella Catherine Keith Falconer is my GGGGrandmother i have her family Falconer line Thank's to Paul Mckee Gifford and also have the Keith Family line From Katherine Margaret Keith The Oldest Daughter Of William Keith 2nd Earl of Kintore who married David Falconar 4th Lord Falconar of Halkerton Dec. 23 1703. The Keith Line i have i have traced back to 1010 . And i have been able to trace the Keith family to the Royal family of Scotland .

Hang on this looks exciting! Look at this birth. It probably isn't her especially as christening is in Aberdeen but I suppose she could have been born in Edinburgh.


ISABELLA CATHARINE KEITH-FALCONER Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
1824
Christening:
13 MAY 1825 Keithhall And Kinkell, Aberdeen, Scotland
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: ANT. A. EARL OF KINTORE KEITH-FALCONER Family
Mother: LOUISA HAWKINS


A later member of the family perhaps.

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Earl of Kintore Algernon H T Keith-Falconer
Name: Algernon H T Keith-Falconer
Death Registration Month/Year: 1930
Age at death (estimated): 77
Registration district: St Martin
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 646


EDIT No the more I look things up, the more this doesn't seem to be your Isabella. You do need to invest in a birth certificate for one of the boys.

Have found this which fits in nicely but doesn't explain the middle names i.e Falconer and Anderson. You really could do with the birth certificate of one of the boys.
She is down on the census as Isabella C Grant.

HENRY GRANT Pedigree
Male Family

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM GRANT Family

Marriages:
Spouse: ISABELLA CATHERINE KEITH Family
Marriage:
03 AUG 1847 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

Sorry Liz I thought you were in the USA or Canada.

I don't have ancestry so can't look up American or Canadian records.

I have now looked through the info you gave me but have not really found anything new. We can trace Isabella Grant from 1880 to 1930 from Mercer to Charlottesville and she is the daughter of Henry Falconer Grant who is the brother of Charles Anderson Grant - both of them I found on the English 1860 census. The only thing is on the US 1920 census is says Isabella's father is Scottish but on the 1860 is states he was born in Clifton Glos.

Isabella's grandmother was born in Edinburgh in 1825 and her name was also Isabella and she married Henry Grant c1845 probably in Scotland as I can't find the marriage in England. Do you have access to Scottish records - if so could you look up the marriage for me.

As I said before I am really interested in Johanna Anderson Grant the second wife of my great uncle Ralph King who he marrried in Montreal in 1923. I think Isabella is a cousin of Johanna and I thought Charles Grant might be her father but Charles is still single on the US 1900 census.

Anyway just wondered if you could help with the Scottish records.

Jean in Somerset

You're welcome Jean. These records are on ancestry. I'm at the other end of the country to you, in northern Scotland and I wish sometimes we didn't have the 100 year rule but I do realise the need to respect people's privacy so I will wait impatiently for the next 10 years!!

Liz

PS Not finding Johanna at all yet.

Thanks very much for all that information - it will take me a while to go through it.

So you have access to the US 1920 and 1930 censuses - so you don't have the 100 rule in the states. 1911 is the latest census we can see.

Will let you know if anything comes out of all the information you have given me.

Many thanks for your time and trouble.

Jean in Somerset

1930 United States Federal Census
about Isabell Grant Miss
Name: Isabell Grant
Home in 1930: Charlottesville, Charlottesville (Independent City), Virginia
View Map
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Birthplace: Virginia
Relation to Head of House: Head
Mother's name: Falconer Grant Mrs
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military Service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace:

View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Isabell Grant 50
Falconer Grant 74


1920 United States Federal Census
about Isabella Grant
Name: Isabella Grant
[Isabella Trant]
Home in 1920: Charlottesville, Albemarle, Virginia
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Birthplace: Virginia
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's name: H F Grant
Mother's Birth Place: Ireland
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Sex: Female
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Mrs H F Grant 64
Isabella Grant 39
Henry Calles 59 Relation to Head of House: Brother, widowed


1910 United States Federal Census
about Isabella Grant
Name: Isabella Grant
Age in 1910: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Birthplace: Virginia
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Father's Birth Place: Scots/ English
Mother's Birth Place: Iowa ??
Home in 1910: Charlottesville, Albemarle, Virginia
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Gender: Female
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Mrs. Ellen T H Minor 70
Fannie Hill 56
Phobe Pachard 40
Isabella Grant 30 trained nurse

1900 United States Federal Census
about Charles A Grant
Name: Charles A Grant
Home in 1900: Mercer, Loudoun, Virginia
[Middleburg, Loudoun, Virginia]
Age: 43
Birth Date: May 1857
Birthplace: England
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relationship to Head of House: Boarder
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles H Downs 34
Minnie C Downs 31
Cora P Downs 2
Mary G Bodmer 75
William Bodmer 38
Mary G Bodmer 16
Claudius Hutchison 25
Christian Reamer 51
Edwin Reamer 6
Charles A Grant 43 capitalist??
Edward F Powel 50

Jean, I'll just put whatever records I may find down if that's OK. Maybe something will be of use.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Isabel Falconer Grant
Name: Isabel Falconer Grant
Arrival Date: 28 May 1913
Birth Year: 1880
Birth Location: Middlesex
Birth Location Other: virginia co
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Majestic

Born May 12 1880 in Middlesburg, Va, she was at the University of Virginia.

Many thanks alviegal for that, it is the right Henry Grant as he is down as a retired officer on the English 1861 census.

I am really looking for the children of brothers Henry Falconer Grant and Charles Anderson Grant (ref 1880 USA census). Isabella Falconer Grant is the daughter of Henry and she was the witness at the wedding of my great uncle Ralph King to Johanna Anderson Grant in Montreal in 1923. I am guessing that Johanna is the daughter of Charles Grant.

So her father was in Virginia USA in 1880 and she was in Montreal Canada in 1923 but where was she inbetween and where was she born USA, Canada or even England?

If you have access to USA and Canadian records could you try and find her for me?

Many thanks for your help so far.

Jean