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Dave -- was your mum not reared by her mum Jean, after David Williams left them?

It's just that the person who has Joseph Tudor in her tree was looking last year for the origins of a Margaret born maybe around 1921-25, who was reared by an Evans couple, but in Staffordshire. Too much dissimilarity, I guess, it's just that somehow you share Joseph Tudor, it seems.

All I can suggest is that you get Margaret's birth certificate, if you don't have it, and see whether it indicates that Jean had a previous married name, or at least get Jean's full name from it.

Having all the details about everybody connected with an individual is the best way to find something about the individual themself, usually.

Cheers At least I've got something to go on because my grandparents on Mothers side has been a well kept secret which she took with her.
I'll let you all know what happens
again thanks for your time and effort and enjoy the Holidays
Dave

As well as there being no marriage, I am absolutely blamed if I can find the record of this death:

"David Williams born we think 1881 could be Liverpool or IOM. died 1st Jan 1949, Buried at Christchurch Barnston Wirral."

Unless he died somewhere else altogether, and the age on his death certificate is very different ...

And you get the marriage cert from here

http://www.gro.gov.uk

£9.25p

So that death ref I found is wrong ,but it would be nice to have had how old he was when he died as well as where

Maybe they married in Isle of Man?

Night.

Of course, there is no marriage of a David Williams to a Jean Ow*ns.


What do you know about Jean? Date and place of birth? Did she ever remarry? Do you know when and where she died?

Well, we had fun.

Births Mar 1915
WILLIAMS Dorothy M Owens W. Derby 8b 1181
Births Mar 1919
Williams Margaret Owens W. Derby 8b 765



I gave the link for FreeBMD above.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

You need to find the David Williams marriage. Then you order the certificate, and it tells you his age and his father's name and occupation (if he stated them).

These are the bare minimum pieces of informatin you need to try to trace him back before the marriage.

Sorry about the lack of details, first time I've done this, so I'll give you all the info I have
David Williams born we think 1881 could be Liverpool or IOM. died 1st Jan 1949, Buried at Christchurch Barnston Wirral.
Married to Jean Owens possibly Owans no dates.
Margaret(peggy) Williams born 12th Jan 1919 died sept 6 2004.
Married Joseph (Frank) Tudor born 1911 died Jan 6th 1968 buried in same grave as David Williams.
Margaret & Joseph married 1938 St. Phillips Litherland.
No info on Dorothy
Believe David Williams left his wife when Margaret was an infant. Went and stayed with Margaret in Irby Wirral untill his death

You did your usual and edited I see JC..Think I will Delete and make your remark look daft;;)

I did post the Dorothy birth at the same time as you though..;P

And I DID find David Williams death ref..double;;P

Bed.
Night.

Ha. No cigar for you.


Noooo, FBG, I didn't edit anything about that bit. The Dorothy birth (useless as it now is) was the first thing in that post. It's just that we posted almost simultaneously (both were "one minute ago" at one point), and mine got there first!

And to go with it?

Births Jun 1920
Williams Dorothy M Moran Liverpool 8b 162

Births Jun 1920
Williams Dorothy M Moran Liverpool 8b 162


Ain't it amazing what you can make out of nothing?


This is actually the only )possible) David Williams + Ms Moran marriage:

Marriages Mar 1904
Breen Lawrence Joseph W. Derby 8b 664
? Moran Ellen W. Derby 8b 664
? Williams David W.Derby. 8b 664
Williams Elizabeth W.Derby. 8b 664

unless Ms Moran had been previously married.


But Dave probably knows who his grandmother was, so could find the marriage at FreeBMD and order the certificate to get David's age, father's name ...

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

There are other Williams-Moran births in Liverpool 1913 into the 1930s; whether the same couple, can't tell.

If that's accurate, the choices are


Births Sep 1919
Williams Margaret V Raven Liverpool 8b 172

Births Dec 1919
Williams Margaret A Moran Liverpool 8b 140


No Raven option for the marriage, but a couple of possible Morans.

Well, here we go, Dave has in his tree:

Margaret Williams 1919 Livepool Lancashire ...

Bizarrely, a search for her born Wirral finds her, but not a search for her born Liverpool. Oh. Well, that would be because he's spelled it LIVEPOOL.

Margaret was Tudor when she died - ?

Okay, I've been having major problems with Ancestry giving me utter crap results, and it just didn't give me that 1949 David Williams death, despite multiple tries, and I'm about fed up with it this week, I can tell ya. I said Liverpool because Mike said Liverpool. I don't have a clue where "the Wirral" is. (Do you know where "the Klondike" is?? ... No, neither do I.) I just know there are interchangeable bits of Cheshire and Lancashire around there.

Wouldn't it be fun if Dave were to return to his thread?!

(the url was for me only, really, there's possible relevance but I didn't want to go into someone else's family)

Wouldnt Margaret have been Williams as per this post by you..

Births Jun 1916
Williams Margaret (mother) Evans Liverpool 8b 80


..I dont get that "relevance "to that URL at all JC..


Name: David Williams
Death Registration Month/Year: 1949
Age at death (estimated): 54
Registration district: Wirral
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 10a
Page: 740

If this is his death ref and he was born in 1895ish,with a name like David Williams then his fathers name and occupation from his marriage cert is a must to be able to even try and find him on census..
And any witnesses names if they are of the Williams family.

Dave, are you in touch with the other person who has Joseph Tudor 1911 in their tree here at GR?


I just want to put this here in case it becomes relevant.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/evans/thread/1182095

Why would he be too old JC?Bloke I know was in his 70s and had 2 kids with his new lady love,who loved his money..

And I thought the poster said he "died on the Wirral"and you had established that was Cheshire?

Mike - those two deaths were 1948 - ?

Maybe

Name: David Williams
Death Registration Month/Year: 1949
Age at death (estimated): 81 = dob abt 1868
Registration district: Liverpool South
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 467

? But a little old to have children in the 1910s maybe.

Aha, the Wirral, and probably Margaret's husband's death:

Name: Joseph F Tudor
Death Registration Month/Year: 1968
Age at death (estimated): 57 = dob abt 1911
Registration district: Wirral
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 10a
Page: 765

Possibly Margaret's death?

Name: Margaret Tudor
Birth Date: 1 Apr 1916
Death Registration Month/Year: Jan 1998
Age at death (estimated): 81
Registration district: Macclesfield
Inferred County: Cheshire
Register number: B58B
District and Subdistrict: 3441B
Entry number: 113


If this were to be Margaret's birth ... well, I'll say it before FBG does: Evans 'elp you!

Births Jun 1916
Williams Margaret (mother) Evans Liverpool 8b 80

That's the only Margaret Evans birth in Liverpool in apr-may-june quarter 1916, to match the death above, if that were Margaret. (edit -- I see what you're on about, FBG -- that was a typo, I was referring to the very Margaret *Williams* birth I posted right above it. Not Margaret Evans.)

Of course ... Margaret is David's mother, so he undoubtedly has lots of information he can give us ... like

William's age when he died
William's wife's name, when she died, age when she died
Margaret's date of birth
Dorothy's date of birth, or at least whether she was older/younger

and who knows what else.



"How to get a fast and accurate response
Give as much detail as possible when explaining who you are trying to find. If known, try putting the name, place of birth and year of birth in the subject line of your thread. All known information will make it much easier for volunteer helpers to help you."

Right there when you post.

We love a puzzle and a challenge, but not pointless work. And especially not duplicated pointless work.