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i have got birth cert back and Mary Ann Margarets maiden name was Porter still unable to find marriage or birth

i have said thankyou also that i am sending off for carolines birth certificate you all have been very helpful thanks alan

Yes, Mike, I was searching for John Wilkinsons *before* we got the news that John wasn't Alfred's son. ;)

Once you get the birth certificate for Caroline, Alan, just post the info back in this thread, and then some further help might be offered, since that isn't possible as it now stands.

Click on "My thread participation" over on the left to find the thread at any time.

thanks for all your help i will send off for carolines birth cert.

If Alan is correct in saying John is not Alfred's son, then he wouldn't have been recorded as Wilkinson but in his mother's name wouldn't he ?

At least with Caroline being registered as Wilkinson, her mother's maiden name can be found which might turn out to be John's surname too.

Name: Mary Ann Fry
Year of Registration: 1873
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Kensington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 1 (click to see others on
married Alfred Wilkinson
could this be them

I believe Alan knew when Mary Ann Margaret Wilkinson died ...

If only we knew where John Wilkinson was in 1891 or 1901 ...

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Mary Ann M Wilkinson Name: Mary Ann M Wilkinson
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 29
District: Marylebone (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 379 (click to see others

Uh, yes, Mike. That's why I've been searching in Ontario births for John Wilkinson, in case it meant Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. (There are at least 5 Hamiltons in the US, as well.)

I'm not sure what your point is? I'm wondering what later censuses gave for his place of birth, as they might possibly be more accurate. The 1891 doesn't help for that, jax. ;)

I'm confused here.

Alan, you said John's mother was your grandmother, but John wasn't her son, so Alfred wasn't your grandfather, if you are descended from John.

Can you please, please, just explain this situation so we know what these relationships are?

Also, if you say please or thank you for the help people are offering, it would be nice.

1891

: Alfred Wilkinson
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emily Wilkinson
Gender: Male
Where born: St Giles, London, England

Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabus
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: Christchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Wilkinson 30
Emily Wilkinson 26
Caroline Wilkinson 11
Mary A Wilkinson 9
Margaret Wilkinson 5

The 1881 census as posted by Maureen shows that John WAS born Hamilton, America and Caroline in St. Giles

Alfred WILKINSON Head M Male 23 St Giles General Labourer
Margaret WILKINSON Wife M Female 24 Hamilton (B S), America Coster
John WILKINSON Son U Male 7 Hamilton (B S), America Scholar
Caroline WILKINSON Daur U Female 2 St Giles Matress Maker

Dwelling 4 West St South Side
Census Place London, Middlesex, England

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Births Sep 1879
Wilkinson Caroline - St. Giles 1b 654



Mind you - it also says Caroline was a Matress Maker .... at 2 yr old !!!!

Alfred, born about 1858, was your grandfather? Ah. (Sorry, you did say Mary Ann Margaret was your grandmother.)

(My grandmother was a Littler, but from Nottinghamshire, so our relationship is very distant. ;) )

Caroline's birth certificate is what you need, as mentioned above. It will give her mother's name, and then it will be a matter of trying to figure out where she came from.

Do you know anything about her son John after 1881? It would be interesting to see what his place of birth was given as in later censuses.


John must be your father, if his mother was your grandmother, no?

My grandfather remarried in 1890 to emily littler and john was not with him in the 1891 cencus

my grandfather never went abroad so John was not his son

We don't know whether John is Margaret's or Alfred's son, or the son of both of them, do we?

John is your grandfather?

What else do you know that you're not saying??

Do you know what Hamilton John was born in -- or that he was in fact born in Hamilton?

Do you have his marriage certificate, and does he name his father?

Where is he in the 1891 census? I can't find him.

Please let us know what you know.

surname of grandfather Wilkinson

There's no marriage in Ontario marriages at Ancestry for Alfred Wilkinson to Margaret.

Was just gonna do that, Maureen. ;) Took me a while because Ancestry decided I had to type everything in the search boxes *backwards*!

1881 Ancestry
Name: Caroline Wilkinson
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Alfred Wilkinson
Mother's name: Margaret Wilkinson
Gender: Female
Where born: St Giles
Civil Parish: St Anne Soho
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 4 West St South Side
Occupation: Matress Maker
Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: St Anne Soho
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Wilkinson 23
Margaret Wilkinson 24
John Wilkinson 7
Caroline Wilkinson 2
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 129; Folio: 51; Page: 34

Caroline's birth cert should give Margaret's maiden name.

Maureen

Alan, we need a surname. Unfortunately, we don't know what "surname board" you are posting on. We are reading the complete board -- if you look at your post, you will see there is no surname in it anywhere.

Did you read the guidance for getting fast accurate answers? Give all the info you have.

Her name before she was born. The name of her husband. Her approximate birthdate ...

"Hamilton America" could be Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Without a surname, we can't check into any of it.