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Hi - sorry for confusion I didnt make it clear - that comment was supposed to be in response to Ginny who provided a possible birth record for Patrick.

Karen...When you say you have had a look at the Birth location...whose Birth location and whose mother's name is Catherine..??

I've just had a proper look at the birth record and am beginning to doubt that it is him.

Birth location doesnt appear to be near Kinsale which is mentioned in census records also the mother's name of catherine is not a name that appears in offspring - so I wonder whether it is them.

I am not completely writing it off yet though until I can prove either way - thx again for your help

Ok - thanks. I just thought as you know sometimes names get spelt differently but I didnt imagine that Patrick and Mary's surnames would be so similar! I got a little confused

I think you are right re Mary and her family as I have now been given the marriage reference for her and Patrick and the names of their children look to be named after her brothers and sisters.

I havent checked yet if the Leary's were still there in 1901 but I will do!
Thanks again for your help

Karen ...A quick look at the 1881 Census for the area where the Leary's lived show all their neighbours were from the Counties Cork and Kerry so I would suggest the place of birth given by both Leary and Cleary is correct...if you have access to later census check out the Leary's they were still there 1901..I dont have access to post the details....

Karen...The 1881 Census does not indicate a "name change"...Patrick Cleary married Mary Leary and it is highly probable the Leary's 1881 are Mary and her family.....

Thank you both - this is great.

It certainly looks a good possibility re the birth - I am getting Patricks marriage certificate which will give me his fathers name. I appreciate this as I havent a clue where to start regarding Irish records.

As for the 1881 census - thanks - I am aware of their name changing in different records but hadn't considered Leary - so thank you for finding them.

Kind regards

Karen...High possibility this is Mary and family 1881 Census.

ousehold Record 1881 British Census

Search results | Download Previous Household Next Household


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Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John LEARY Head M Male 50 Bantry, Ireland Labourer
Ellen LEARY Wife M Female 45 Kerry, Ireland Labourer (wife)
Johanna LEARY Daughter U Female 22 Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales Working Out Charwoman
Mary LEARY Daughter U Female 18 Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales Working Out Charwoman
John LEARY Son U Male 16 Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales Labouring
Ann Norah LEARY Daughter U Female 13 Bantry, Ireland Scholar
Daniel LEARY Son U Male 11 Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Michael LEARY Son U Male 8 Bantry, Ireland Scholar
Dennis LEARY Son U Male 8 Bantry, Ireland Scholar


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Source Information:
Dwelling 8 Irish Row
Census Place Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342279
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5315 / 5
Page Number 4

Would this be Patricks birth?

Irish Records Extraction Database
about Patrick Cleary
Name: Patrick Cleary
Sex: Male
Birthplace: Boherbue, County Cork, Ireland
Baptism: 25 Nov 1860
Baptism Place: Boherbue, County Cork, Ireland
Father: Patrick Cleary
Mother: Catherine Donshough

Source: Albert Eugene Casey, Eleanor L. Downey-Prince, and Ursula Dietrich.. Index of O'Kief, Coshe Mange, Slieve Lougher and Upper Blackwater in Ireland. 16 vols. Birmingham, Alabama: Knocknagree Historical Fund, 1952-1971. Found at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, Utah under book call number 941.5 D2c Index, and under the following microfilm: 823801 (vols. 1-2); 823802 (vols. 3-4); 823803 (vols. 4-5); 823804 (vol. 7); 823805 (vol. 8); 823806 (vols. 9-10); 823808 (vols. 11-12); and 823809 (vols. 13-14).
The cover title notes that this compilation contains the what, when and where for the sixteen volumes on counties Cork and Kerry containing 30,000 pages, 3,000,000 personal names (indexed in each volume) with number maps of townlands, parishes, baronies, and counties. Not all of these entries have been included in this compilation at this time. However, the most important collections have been noted in the annotations below for use by researchers in pursuing additional investigations.
Volume 1: Baptisms of Rathmore Parish 1837-1874, including the parishes of Nohaval and Kilcummin, with a laçuna in the records from March 1841 - January 1844. It is said that an older parish register came to pieces and disappeared. The first available register is the one just noted. There are missing pages and many names are almost illegible. This is true thoughout the records of this collection.
Death records from several places in County Cork and County Kerry, not recorded in this electronic collection.
Volume 2: Births, Marriages, Deaths, Barony of Duhallow; Births, Christenings 1833-1864, St. Mary's Roman Catholic parish, Boherbue. County Cork., 2:498

Thanks - and I will do!

It will be interesting to see where the 'John' started. My uncle and grandad are both John and both eldest sons.

So he prob came over sometime between 1861 and 1871.

When you get the marriage cert please can you let me know what Marys fathers name is?My money goes on John,but I will let you have the fun of searching for her and letting me know I am wrong..;).The satisfaction of finding things yourself is Brrrilliant...

Good luck...

Wow, this is fantastic, its the first time that I've asked for help.

I take on board the opinions stated. I'm fairly new to this so any advice/thoughts etc is more than welcome

Thank you too Susan for your help

I look forward to sharing this information with my family

Hi, I couldnt find him either. I seem to have reached a stumbling block with him.

As you say, I will get hold of the marriage certificate and see what more I can find out. At least hopefully I will be able to find out more about Mary's side.

Thank you again for the information that you have given me, its very helpful.

Kind regards

Unfortunately here is the death of Elizabeth from the 1901 census...

Deaths Sep 1903 (>99%)
Cleary Elizabeth 4 Merthyr T. 11a 325

And maybe on 1871 as I do find that the Irish have wild swings on birth years,more so than others,but as I have said before on this ,that is only my opinion.

CORRY, William Boarder M 18 1853 Glamorgan
CLAREY, Ellen Boarder F 50 1821 Ireland (Tipperary)
CLAREY, Patrick Boarder Son M 10 1861 Ireland(Co Cork)
MAGNING, Patrick Head M 35 1836 Ireland
MAGNING, Hannah Wife F 33 1838 Ireland
MAGNING, Honorah Daughter F 18 1853 Ireland
MAGNING, Jeremiah Son M 16 1855 Ireland
MAGNING, Denis Son M 15 1856 Ireland
MAGNING, Patrick Son M 17 1854 Ireland
MAGNING, Daniel Son M 5 1866 Ireland

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Merthyr Tydfil, Upper Enumeration District:
22 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil Municipal Borough:
Address:
Company Row Back, Merthyr Tydfil County:
Glamorganshire

Kinsale is in Co Cork and he did call his first daughter Ellen...

There are no passenger lists from Ireland to England/Wales/Scotland so it would be difficult to find out when he came over,You need to try and follow him back on census in Wales/England to see when you lose him here..
I cant find them on 1891 census here at the moment,have you found them on it at all.

The marriage cert would of course give you his fathers name and occupation to try and find his baptism..

This looks to be him on 1881


CONNORS, Edmond Son In Law Head Married M 21 1860 Labourer
Ireland
CONNORS, Mary A Wife Married F 20 1861
Dowlais
Glamorganshire
CLEARY, Patrick Boarder Single M 25 1856 Labourer
Ireland
MULLAN, James Boarder Single M 19 1862 Labourer
Ireland
CORKLEY, Patrick Boarder Single M 23 1858 Labourer
Ireland
RYAN, David Boarder Single M 22 1859 Labourer
Ireland

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Upper Merthyr Tydfil Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil Municipal Borough:
Address:
12, Wind Street, Merthyr Tydfil County:
Glamorganshire

Thank you very much that was quick!

Do you know how I would be able to find out about Patrick's history, when he came over from Ireland etc?

If not, I appreciate the information that you have given me anyway

1911


CLEARY, Patrick Head Married M 51 1860 Driller Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, Mary Married 25 years
F 47 1864 Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, John Son Single M 24 1887 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, Ellen Daughter Single F 21 1890 Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, Patrick Son Single M 18 1893 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, William Son Single M 15 1896 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, Mary Daughter F 13 1898 School Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, Denis Son M 8 1903 School Glamorgan Dowlais
CLEARY, Johanna Daughter F 6 1905 School Glamorgan Dowlais
PAYTON, Frank Boarder Single M 38 1873 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Upper Merthyr Tydfil Enumeration District:
11 Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil

Address:
241 Lower High St Dowlais Glamorgan County:
Glamorganshire

1911 census - household transcription
Person: CLEARY, Ellen
Address: 241 Lower High St Dowlais Glamorgan

CLEARY, Patrick Head Married M 51 1860 Driller Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, Mary Married
25 years F 47 1864 Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, John Son Single M 24 1887 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, Ellen Daughter Single F 21 1890 Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, Patrick Son Single M 18 1893 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, William Son Single M 15 1896 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, Mary Daughter F 13 1898 School Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, Denis Son M 8 1903 School Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
CLEARY, Johanna Daughter F 6 1905 School Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
PAYTON, Frank Boarder Single M 38 1873 Labourer Steel Works Glamorgan Dowlais VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32461 Reference:
RG14PN32461 RG78PN1856 RD590 SD3 ED11 SN128

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Upper Merthyr Tydfil Enumeration District:
11 Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil

Address:
241 Lower High St Dowlais Glamorgan County:
Glamorganshire
(9 chidren born, 7 living, 2 had died.)

1901

CLEARY, Patrick Head Married M 42 1859 Rilling Rails Iron Works
Ireland Kinsale
CLEARY, Mary Wife Married F 36 1865
Dowlais
Glamorganshire
CLEARY, John Son Single M 14 1887 General Labourer Iron Works
Dowlais
Glamorganshire
CLEARY, Ellen Daughter Single F 11 1890
Dowlais
Glamorganshire
CLEARY, Patrick Son Single M 8 1893
Dowlais
Glamorganshire
CLEARY, William Son Single M 6 1895
Dowlais
Glamorganshire
CLEARY, Mary Daughter Single F 3 1898
Dowlais
Glamorganshire
CLEARY, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 1 (1 YRS 5 MOS) 1900
Dowlais
Glamorganshire

Registration District:
Merthyr Tydfil Sub District:
Upper Merthyr Tydfil Enumeration District:
10 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St John Dowlais

Civil Parish:
Merthyr Tydfil Municipal Borough:
Address:
2, Garden Row, Merthyr Tydfil, Dowlais County:
Glamorganshire


from http://freebmd.org.uk

Marriages Sep 1885
CLEARY Patrick Merthyr T. 11a 706
LEARY Mary Merthyr Tydfil 11a 706


Births Mar 1890
Cleary Ellen Merthyr T. 11a 637

Her birth cert will confirm her mothers maiden name.