Find Ancestors

Liz, Thanks SO much for your help - really appreciate it. Going to send info to mil's cousin in the states so maybe that will jog her memory too. Weirdest thing - mil is in sheltered accommodation - bumped into new resident who turned out to be one of her long lost distant cousins on her Dad's side - you couldn't make it up could you??!! Big thanks, Maggie

Would definitely make a great WDYTYA!
Can't find any later records for the Rosenbergs, perhaps your mil will come up with more memories.
Wouldn't it be great if we all wrote down our memories just now and when our children and grandchildren started asking questions everything would be there for them. It would be so much easier.
Anyway, hope someone can help you further.
Good luck...Liz

***alviegal*** just had another long chat with mil and she thinks you have found the right family. The name Morris rings bells – Harold not so much, but she did say that the family had two children, and that the brother who died was about 6 years younger than Cyril (known as Sid Rose) and may not have been called William after all!! She had a picture of the brother who died when he was about 10/11, and thinks he died when she was about 10/11 – certainly not after she was 15/16 as he died while she lived in her old house (she was born in 1923). She said Rose and Morris got married in the US and that the family were “something of a mystery”. She thinks Rose died suddenly, and that after her cousin David died the family lost touch with Cyril.

She also came out with a lot of stuff about her father’s family about whom we know a little more – said they were wealthy timber merchants in Poland who moved here c.1889 – her father was known here as Benjamin Hyams, but in Poland his name was Chaim Cheke, she thinks he was born in 1880, and came here when he was 9. His parents were divorced in Poland and both remarried – there were 11 children, so the girls went to live with their mother and the boys lived with their father but they were a close family. The kids went on to have quite a few children too so there are now many of them spread all over the world – would definitely make a good WDYTYA!!

Wow ***alviegal*** Thanks - quickie as just on way out to Rangers - I feel another 'phone call to ma in law coming on..... ;-)

Rose in the US. Morris emigrated in 1909. They all spoke Yiddish.

1920 United States Federal Census
about Rose Rosenberg
Name: Rose Rosenberg
[John Rosenberg]
Home in 1920: Buffalo Ward 14, Erie, New York
Age: 35
[38]
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
[abt 1882]
Birthplace: England
[New York]
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Spouse's name: Morris Rosenberg
Father's Birth Place: Russia
Mother's Birth Place: Russia
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Female
Year of immigration: 1911
[1901]
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Morris Rosenberg 34 tailor, b England, Father's Birth Place: Russia
Mother's Birth Place: Russia
Rose Rosenberg 35
[38]
Cyril Rosenberg 9
[9 4/12] Birthplace: England
Harold Rosenberg 3 Birthplace: New York

Lucky son, Maggie.

He's got some interesting ancestors to write about. As good as WDYTYA any day.

Ozi

Thanks Ozibird!! That’s great. Just had a chat with mother in law and all sorts of things have come out with the prompting of the info on here. She does remember hearing of Cyril (known as Cyd/Sid), and also Cyril’s brother William who died very young – doesn’t remember hearing of Lilli and Pearl, but as she wasn’t born until 1923, and Rose’s family stayed in the US that’s not surprising – unless of course it’s a different family. She remembers hearing about Rose in the orphanage, and of the family theory that Rose was so upset by being the one who was sent to the orphanage that that was why she went to America. She had thought that Cyril was born in the states – hadn’t realised he was born over here. She also came out with other stuff about members of the family that I had met – I knew that Joseph’s son David was in the US forces and took his wife home from here as a GI bride, but I hadn’t known that his bride was also his cousin on his mother’s side, so thanks all for helping to prompt this flow of information!!

Original reason for asking mil about her rellies is that son will have to do something on his family history at school this year - lucky enough to find other members of the family who have researched other lines in hubby's family and now this info about mil's mother's line will be a great help so thanks all SO much.

??????
First Name: Rose
Last Name: Rosenberg
Ethnicity: Russian-Hebrew
Last Place of Residence:
Date of Arrival: May 19, 1906
Age at Arrival: 25y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: New York
Port of Departure: Southampton
Manifest Line Number: 0016
(0015. Rosenberg, Markelj M 27y M Russian-Hebrew [Looks like Markey on image.]
0016. Rosenberg, Rose F 25y M Russian-Hebrew
0017. Rosenberg, Lilli F 2y S Russian-Hebrew
0018. Rosenberg, Pearl F 6m S Russian-Hebrew
Joining brother, J Rosenberg.
445 E. 6th Street, NY)

????????
9 Jul 1911, Ship of Travel: Saint Louis
0029. Rosenberg, Rose F 30y M Great Britain, Hebrew London, England
0030. Rosenberg, Cyril M 9m S Great Britain, Hebrew London, England

Joining husband, Mr Rosenberg.
40 Holland St, Rochester, NY.

It seems they've lived in Rochester since 1909. She probably went home to have the baby.
Births Sep 1910
ROSENBERG Cyril St. Geo. East 1c 261

Thanks ***alviegal*** and Jan. That looks like her. Her mother was reported to be very poor so I guess if she was widowed, having one of her children helped out would be a big help.

Was wondering why she would be so far away from the others in Lambeth but this seems to have the answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwood_(charity)

East End origins
B. & A. Goldsmid started giving aid to poor and sick Jewish children at Mile End in 1806 - London's major Jewish community at the time was rapidly growing with new immigrants from the Continent. His work drew private donations from London's Jewish community, enabling the foundation of a Jews' Hospital for the Aged Poor and the Education and Employment of Youth in 1831. After merging with the Jews' Hospital (Neve Tzedek, founded in 1807) it sought a new site away from the unhealthy conditions of the East End of London, and was given 9.5 acres (38,000 m2) of freehold land in the then-rural setting of Knight's Hill, West Norwood, by Barnet Meyers.

Thanks also ***alviegal*** for the 1901. Really appreciate everyone’s help. Going to speak to mother in law in the morning and ask if she remembers a cousin Cyril (and if she knows what Cyril’s Dad’s name was)!!

1891
it is a Jews Hospital and Orphan Asylum
Name: Rose Marash
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Pupil
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
Town: Norwood
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Norwood
ED, institution, or vessel: Jews Hospital and Orphan Asylum

Here she is.

1891 census transcription details for: Jews Hospital And Orphan Asylum, West Norwood S E
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 419 Folio: 174 Page: 10

Reg. District: Lambeth Sub District: Norwood
Parish: Lambeth Enum. District: 24
Ecclesiastical District: St Luke City/Municipal Borough: Lambeth
Address: Lambeth, Norwood
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
MARASH, Rose Pupil F 13 1878
London


1901 census transcription details for: 39, Blakesley Street, St George In The East
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 312 Folio: 138 Page: 23

Reg. District: St George in the East Sub District: St George North
Parish: St George in the East Enum. District: 21
Ecclesiastical District: Christ Church City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 39, Blakesley Street, St George In The East
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
MARASH, Matilde Head Widow F 43 1858
Russian
MARASH, Rose Daughter Single F 23 1878 Tailor
St Geo ELondon
MARASH, Kate Daughter Single F 22 1879 Tailor
St Geo ELondon
MARASH, Joseph Son M 20 1881 Boot Clicker
West KensingtonLondon

Sorry for delay in getting back to you all – half term activities got in the way of family history!!

Kath – thanks for ruling 60 year old Joseph out. Tilly would fit in with all other available info.

Choccy (Love the name!!) – Thanks – looks like you found them – would never have thought of looking for Marush (tho I guess I should have cos one of my own family names is misspelt differently in EVERY census!!). Does mean that the possible death I found for Isaac after 1891 is probably not the right Isaac. Thanks also for 1911 – didn’t know anything about Rose so that’s really helpful.

Helen – yes thanks – as far as I can tell that is the right marriage.

Thanks all for your help – 80 plus year old mother in law will be SO chuffed!! Kate married Benjamin Hyams (I think in 1905) and at some point went to America, tho was back in the UK before her eldest daughter Hilda was born in 1910.

Just wondering if anyone can check out Rose in 1891 – I think this is her
Institution MARASH, Rose 1878 13 F Lambeth London
but don’t know what sort of an institution she was in.

Really appreciate your help – had always thought that jewish eastern european in laws would be difficult to track down – finding out that one of them was born in the UK earlier than I thought has opened up more doors than I thought possible!!

Big thanks,

Maggie

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Tila Naswinsky
Name: Tila Naswinsky
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: London City
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 169 (click to see others on page)

Is this the marriage?

if it helps -

1911

MARASH, Matilda Head Widow M 52 1859 None Russia VIEW
ROSENBERG, Rose Daughter Married
3 years F 31 1880 None Mile End London E VIEW
ROSENBERG, Cyril Grandson M 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 London St Georges E VIEW
MARASH, Joseph Son Single M 29 1882 Boot Trade Clicker London Kensington VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1588 Reference:
RG14PN1588 RG78PN56 RD21 SD1 ED17 SN2

Registration District:
Mile End Old Town Sub District:
Mile End Old Town South Western Enumeration District:
17 Parish:
Mile End Old Town

Address:
2 Sidney St Stepney County:
London

I think the family that Choccy found is probably the right one. Although Joseph's mother has been transcribed as Lilly the image looks as if it could be Tilly (short for Matilda).

Kath. x

what about this ?


1891

MARUSH, Lilly Head Widow F 32 1859
Cornor
Russia VIEW
MARUSH, Kate Daughter Single F 13 1878 Tailors Apprentice
London VIEW
MARUSH, Joseph Son Single M 11 1880 Scholar
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
285 Folio:
72 Page:
21

Registration District:
St George in the East Sub District:
St George North Enumeration District:
9 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St John

Civil Parish:
St George in the East Municipal Borough:
St George East Address:
27 & 28, Shop And House, William Street, St George In The East, St George East County:
London

Is this the one you mean? He definitely looks to be 60 years old:-


Name: Joseph Marsh
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Fanny Marsh
Gender: Male
Where born: Fareham, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls Bow Common
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town, Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 44
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age

Joseph Marsh 60 , Dock labourer
Fanny Marsh 58

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 313; Folio 67; Page 23; GSU roll: 6095423.

Kath. x

Aha - Caffeine getting through to brain - have a hunch that Household MARSH, Joseph 1831 60 M Mile End Old Town London is actually Joseph born in 1881..

Wonder if someone with access to 1891 could check the household for me please pretty please?

If my hunch is correct he will be there with his mother Matilda and sister Kate.

Thanks,

Maggie

Right - have had first cup of coffee of morning and think Matilda and Kate have come to light listed as "Marsh" - but still no baby of the family, Joseph - have checked the other possible spelling of Marasch......