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Other people's trees -- unless they can tell you where the info in them came from, they're interesting, but not to be relied on!

I am wondering whether maybe the Ann in the 1891 household was Kate's mother, and Peter her second husband -- or heck, first husband ;) -- so Kate's surname wasn't Br*nnan, that sort of thing. One of those R* variations is a possibility!

Here's a very odd household in 1871.

Name: Catherine Brannon
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Brannon
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire

Thomas Brannon 16 - unmarried, >> brass caster
Mary Brannon 10
Margaret Brannon 9
Catherine Brannon 6
Ann Brannon 2
Elizabeth Brannon 1
Elizabeth Brannon 20 - lodger, widow
Catharine Brannon 35 - lodger, widow

The two adult Brannon women were born in Roscommon, Ireland, all others in Birmingham. The immediate neighbours are bricklayer's labourers.


And that is how the page reads. A census worker has underlined "Head" beside Thomas and put a question mark.


I was looking at this birth:

Births Dec 1868
BRANNON Catherine Ellen W. Derby 8b 266

but I would guess she is this person in 1871:

Name: Kate Brannon
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elen Brannon
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Eccleston
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire

Elen Brannon 35 - married, no occupation, born Ireland
Ann Brannon 13
Mart Brannon 8
John Brannon 6
Kate Brannon 5
Mary Brannon 3
Bridget Kildare 73 - lodger

I hadnt come across the marriage you found with the possible misspelt names, however i have a contact with a lot of similarities in their tree but other bits that dont match at all. I wondered if they have just added any name and marriage including that name without confirming. The one thing i do remember about it is that his Annie Buffeys parents were William Buffey and Katherine Rowan, her fathers name spelt Rohan. Could this be where 'Ruearn'. Also i know for a fact that Annie spoke with an Irish accent, meaning her parents also, maybe this could be the cause of some mistakes with names. I just tried reading the name Ruearn to myself in my best Irish accent and it seemed to make some sense to me :o)

This death matches the age of Peter Brennan in the 1891 census:

Name: Peter Brannon
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 71
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 101

Just in case you're wanting another certificate. ;)


This seems to be him in 1901:

Name: Peter Brannan
Age: 70
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Where born: Coun By Leeds, Ireland

Civil parish: Derby
County/Island: Derbyshire

District Union Workhouse

Occupation bricklayer's labourer, widowed, and somebody might want to take a shot at reading the place of birth, Ireland. I'm seeing it as

County ____

but what's after that, I don't know. It doesn't resembly an Irish county name I recognize.

I can't see a death for Ann to fit what facts we have. Possibilities are Ann Brannan c1836, died Wrexham Q1 1901, and Ann Brannan c1837, died West Derby 1897. Or Ann Brennan c1840, died Stoke Upon Trent 1896 ...

I understood why the no birth certificates -- because you can't find the births! ;)

I absolutely agree that Lena in 1901 is Eleanor in 1891. I just think they may have been playing a little fast and loose with names (or a census worker misread, etc.) and "Lena" was really short for "Selina". Possibly someone just assumed it was short for "Eleanor". The quarter of registration matches perfectly with the age of Leaa/Eleanor in the censuses.

My Henry Buffey proposal ... that one from 1881 is in the 1891 census still a brass caster, living with mother Sarah in Aston, shown as single ... but isn't in the 1901 census -- other than if he is the husband of Kate/Katherine, which I'll stick to my theory he is. ;)

You're quite welcome; the multiple threads thing is an unfortunate but not uncommon frustration.

JaneyCanuck -
Thankyou for still sparing time to help me even after i broke the rules with the 2 threads, same name thing, i can assure you this wasnt intentional and i will be more careful next time i think about starting a thread.
You are right in saying that i dont have birth certificates for anyone, since a relative on another side of the family told me he had spent around £300 to date on certificates, i wanted to explore other resources until i got really stuck. Looks like it might be a good time to start ordering.
The only thing that makes me think Lena is Eleanor is that the ages match up in census records.
Just for information, and because ive found that the same names run through a few generations, Annie Buffey and John Ross's children included a Catherine, Harry, Clara, Mary and Laura. There were a couple more but i cannot remember and havnt found their births yet.
Anyway, thankyou for helping, you are very kind :o)

For info, Henry Buffey, husband of Kate/Katherine, in 1881 with parents, I think:

Name: Henry Buffey
Age: 17
> Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Buffey
Mother's Name: Sarah Buffey
Where born: Sutton In Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
>> Occupation: Brass Castor

Civil parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire

William Buffey 48
Sarah Buffey 48
Clara Buffey 20
Henry Buffey 17
Edwin Buffey 15
Alfred Buffey 13
Maria Buffey 8
Jane Pursall 16



I got kind of fascinated with this person:

Births Mar 1866
BUFFEY Kate E Birmingham 6d 95
Buffey Kate E Birmingham 6d 96
-- second entry is the corrected one

But have ruled her out -- she married Amos Harris in 1887 and is with her mother Mary Ann Buffey and daughter Rose L Harris in 1891


This is likely another child of Henry Buffey and Kate/Katherine, just for info:

Births Dec 1891
BUFFEY Laura Catherine Birmingham 6d 76
Deaths Dec 1892
Buffey Laura Catherine 1 Birmingham 6d 49


As I understand it (and I'm a bit muddled between the two threads), you don't have a birth certificate for your Annie or any of her siblings?

I think I would try the Selina Buffey birth.


What do you think of some very badly misguided mistranscription as a possibility?

Marriages Jun 1889
> BUFFERY Henry Birmingham 6d 59
Green Frances Harriet A Birmingham 6d 59
Harris Thomas Birmingham 6d 59
> Ruearn Catherine Birmingham 6d 59

"Ruearn" just isn't a name ever at all. Could both surnames have been misread (or misrecorded) on the marriage certificate?

Since she was called Lena in one census, perhaps she was Selina.

Births Mar 1890
Buffey Selina Mary Birmingham 6d 156

Marriages Mar 1911
Buffey Selina Aston 6d 283
Jinks Elizabeth Aston 6d 283
Jones Edward Aston 6d 283
Penn William Aston 6d 283

Not having any luck in the 1911. But I don't see a Selina Buffey in 1891 or 1901.

Selina Buffey married William Penn:

Births Jun 1914
> PENN Catherine Buffey Birmingham 6d 543
Births Dec 1916
> Penn Henry T Buffey Birmingham 6d 413
Births Mar 1920
Penn Selina M Buffey Birmingham 6d 695
(died same year; haven't checked others)
Births Sep 1921
Penn Joseph Buffey Birmingham 6d 498
Births Sep 1923
Penn Annie Buffey Birmingham 6d
Births Mar 1927
Penn Christina M Buffey Birmingham N. 6d 694

> Eleanor/Lena's parents were Thomas and Katherine? Possibly the T in Henry T is Thomas ...

Name: Thomas Henry Penn
Birth Date: 16 Oct 1916
Death Registration Month/Year: May 1984
Age at death (estimated): 67
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 32
Page: 130

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1244190

Post re parents of Kate/Katherine Brennan Buffey.

Assuming these records are for the same family, can anyone find out where Eleanor or Lena Buffey c1890 born Birmingham is in 1911 census as she is not with her family??

There are a few more children, some are mispelt for example buffy or buffie. I think i have all of them now, Mary is my nan. Thankyou for looking.x

Annie and John's children's birth registrations:

Births Jun 1916 (>99%)
Ross Catherine Buffey Birmingham 6d 484
Births Sep 1918 (>99%)
Ross Harry Buffey Birmingham 6d 378
Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Ross Laura J Buffey Birmingham N. 6d 696

Hi, no i havnt found a record of her birth, having said that, i cant find the birth of any one of the children listed on the census records, apart from Thomas possibly. Maybe the family didnt register the births or maybe i am not looking properly. Either way i can see this line of the family is going to be a nightmare to trace as they are definately of irish descent meaning it is likely i will just hit a brick wall. I think Annie Buffey has one surviving daughter, my nans sister so maybe i should try to get in touch with her if i have any chance in getting any further with this. Thankyou for all the help and i will be back when i have moved onto another name in my family tree.

Is this Annie's death registration? If it is and the correct information has been supplied by whoever registered her death then if gives you her actual birthdate,

Name: Annie Ross
Birth Date: 13 Jan 1888
Death Registration Month/Year: 1970
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 1227

I still cannot see an Ann(ie) Buffey birth registration in England or Wales that matches however.

P.S. You are correct, the same info needs to be supplied to the GRO for birth or Death certificates.

Brilliant, thanks for your help. I assume this would also be the same for birth and death certificates. Thankyou for your help :O)

Marriages Mar 1915 (>99%)
Buffey Annie Ross Birmingham 6d 456
Ross John Buffey Birmingham 6d 456

Go to www.gro.gov.uk

You will need to register (Once only and free)

Complete the online order form including giving the Volume No 6d and page No 456.

You can pay via credit or debit card.

Sorry for late reply, I did find the record of their marriage, Annie Buffey married John Ross in Birmingham, registered March 1915. So once i have found the record how do i go about ordering a copy of certificate?

What was your great grandfathers name and have you any idea where or when they married?

Where and when was their first child born?

If we can identify their marriage a copy of the certificate can be obtained easily online for £9.25

thankyou, i dont even know how i would get hold of it or how much it would cost. i am pretty new to this :O)

Annie Buffey's marriage certificate to your great grandfather should (Hopefully) give you her fathers name.

Incidentally apart from the 1911 census that you found which may or not be your great grandmother how else do you know where and when she was born? There is no record of a Ann(ie) Buffey birth being registered in Warwickshire, Worcestershire or Staffordshire between 1887~1889.