Find Ancestors

Many thanks

Thank you to everybody who has contributed, the invaluable information that you have provided to me is greatly appreciated.

Carey

ann/annie


I did NOT state it as fact ....... at least in my mind!


and as an editor, and after previous experiences on these boards, I am actually very careful on how I say something


I said:-

"But it does seem that the records for men who died were actually removed from ....."


If I had wanted to state it as fact, I would have said

"The records for men who died were removed from .................."



see the difference????




sylvia

I thought I was wrong once - but that was an error.

Sylvia

It's just that you shouldn't have stated it as though it was fact!

ok

so I was wrong!



sylvia

Sylvia - Try William Eastwood Roe

all I meant was that I have yet to find BOTH a service record and an entry on the UK Soldiers Died in the Great War


......... so I have made an assumption that the service record of a soldier who died was removed from the "active" records and moved to another "inactive" file.


Now, I know that I have not searched every record, and I have probably made a wrong assumption


but I was basing my comment "But it does seem that the records for men who died were actually removed from the registry after their death" on my own experiences.


I could quite believe that records of dead soldiers were removed from the active file, and placed elsewhere in another place

....................... I did not mean to imply that they would have been deliberately destroyed.




sylvia

I don't think the service records of soldiers that died were removed.
Occasionally, one sees a page or two of what looks like a service record sitting in a pension file, and naturally, these affect nearly every dead soldier and just a fraction of survivors, but aside from that, they're sitting there along with all the other services records waiting to get burned.

The records were accessed after the war - HMSO's "Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919" and the CWGC records are evidence of this - also, in the service records of dead soldiers, you'll usually find a receipt for the guy's medals signed by his n.o.k. sitting in the record, and most of these medals were actually issued after the war.

Just in case it may be of interest to you. The War Graves Photographic Project have photographed his actual grave headstone.
You can obtain a copy of this by email or a hard copy by post, but the do ask fo a donation, £3-00 for emailed version or £5-00 fo a hard copy by post, but they do send other details etc of the cemetery, but you can get details of the cemetery etc from the CWGC site for free.
Its a question of whether or not this is info you wish to have.
George

Link to the site
http://www.twgpp.org/information.php?id=2346490

cemetery: Hazebrouck Communal Cemetery

Country: France

Area: Nord

Rank: Private

Official Number: 2234

Unit: A Coy. 2nd Bn. Essex Regiment.

Force: Army

Nationality: British

Details:
Died of wounds 1st June 1915. Age 18. Son of Alfred and Emma Chambers of 1 Perth Rd. Barking Essex. II. A. 22.

SylviainCanada

Not sure what you mean here

But it does seem that the records for men who died were actually removed from the registry after their death.

If you mean that there are no existing service records for those who were killed, this is most definitely NOT the case.

1911 census

HAMBERS, Alfred Head Married M 45 1866 Army Pensioner Labourer Barking Town Urban District Council Lambeth Surrey VIEW
CHAMBERS, Emma Eliza Wife Married
23 years F 42 1869 Wealdstone Middx VIEW
CHAMBERS, Alice Maud Daughter Single F 18 1893 Tobbaco Stripper Tippery Ireland Resident VIEW
*****CHAMBERS, Edward Thomas Son Single M 15 1896 Machine Hand Agra East India Resident VIEW
CHAMBERS, Frederick Kitchner Son M 8 1903 Twukerham Surrey VIEW
CHAMBERS, Daisy Marah Daughter F 6 1905 Barking Essex VIEW
CHAMBERS, Ivy Daughter F 4 1907 Barking Essex VIEW
CHAMBERS, Richard John Son M 3 1908 Barking Essex VIEW
CHAMBERS, Lilly Louisa Daughter F 0 (9 MONTHS) 1911 Barking Essex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9925 Reference:
RG14PN9925 RG78PN522 RD191 SD3 ED15 SN303

Registration District:
Romford Sub District:
Barking Town Enumeration District:
15 Parish:
Barking

Address:
152 Perth Road Barking Essex County:
Essex

Many many thanks


Carey

I think your #s are the GRO ref for buying his d.cert. These d.certs are singularly uniformative.
If you want to see a WW1 deaths register, click on the link near the foot of the page at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&404

Naturally, given the source, this is for a Scottish regiment, but the English ones are pretty much the same.



Here's what Ancestry says abt Sylvia's hit:


About UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

In 1921 His Majesty's Stationery Office published, on behalf of and by authority of the War Office, two lists of those who died during the Great War. One volume, packed with minute typescript, gave the basic details of nearly 42,000 officer casualties. It required an additional eighty volumes to list all the 'other ranks' who gave their lives. Each of the original volumes represented one or more regiments, corps or other units of the British Army. Most were subdivided into battalions or similar groupings. There were often thirty or more of these per volume, each in alphabetical order.

This database contains information extracted from these volumes and includes over 703,000 individuals. Information listed about an individual may include:

* Name * Birthplace * Enlistment place * Residence * Number * Decoration * Rank * Regiment * Battalion * Type of casualty * Death date * Death place * Theater of war



As Sylvia suggests, all war deaths are recorded at:
http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp

Search for him, then click on the "CHAMBERS E T" link, and then on the "HAZEBROUCK COMMUNAL CEMETERY" link.



Ancestry has an image of his medal card showing he got 3 campaign medals:

# 1914-15 Star was awarded for service in France or Flanders (Belgium) between 23 November 1914 and 31 December 1915, or for service in any theater between 5 August 1914 and 31 December 1915

# Allied Victory Medal (Victory Medal) was awarded for service in any operational theater between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. It was issued to individuals who received the 1914 and 1914-15 Stars and to most individuals who were issued the British War Medal. The medal was also awarded for service in Russia (1919-1920) and post-war mine clearance in the North Sea (1918-1919).

# British War Medal was awarded to both servicemen and civilians that either served in a theater of war, or rendered service overseas between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. It was also awarded for service in Russia, and post-war mine clearance in the Baltic, the Black Sea, and the Caspian Sea between 1919 and 1920.

Also, that he arrived in France 2/2/15, and he D of W 1/6/15.



I couldn't find a service (or pension) record for him - probably it got burned up.

Edward Thomas Chambers was buried in France,records from CWGC as follows:

CHAMBERS
Initials: E T
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment
Unit Text: "A" Coy. 2nd Bn.
Age: 18
Date of Death: 01/06/1915
Service No: 2234
Additional information: Son of Alfred and Emma Chambers, of 1, Perth Rd., Barking, Essex.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: II. A. 22.
Cemetery: HAZEBROUCK COMMUNAL CEMETERY

Thanks Sylvia

Thanks Sylvia

Carey

The number 3/2234 is his service number

Only about 30% of the records have survived from the 1st World War, and even those are damaged.

But it does seem that the records for men who died were actually removed from the registry after their death.

You might want to check the Commonwealth Graves site (cgwc ..... I think!), and see if his grave is on record.

If he died and was buried in Europe (ie France) then you should be able to find that information.



sylvia

Hi Sylvia

Thanks, so the number that I have, would only be the info from ancestry that you have provided?

Carey

Hi Sylvia

Thanks, so the number that I have, would only be the info from ancestry that you have provided?

Carey

This is on the UK Soldiers Died in the Great War on ancestry



UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

Name: Edward Thomas Chambers
Birth Place: Agra, India
Residence: Barking
Death Date: 1 Jun 1915
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Ilford, Essex
Rank: Private
Regiment: Essex Regiment
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Number: 3/2234
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre




sylvia