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Edward was living in Newcastle when he married and is described as a Fitter living on Stowell St and his wife Mary is living in Coxlodge(north of Newcastle) with her family. I don't know what Edward was doing before 1851 other than he was born in Ireland and his father was Bryan Coffey. I can't find any Bryan Coffey's in Ireland but there's a couple appear in England on searches. I'll have to wait until I'm next in the NDFHS where I can browse online records from FMP and Ancestry to see if any of them sound like mine.
Mary's father Thomas Hodge is described on the 1841 census as a coal miner. I think he probably moved up here from Devon or Cornwall as there's lots of mining Hidge's down there.

Peter..I think the christian name would be Marcella....very common at the time...
You would need to be trawling back in the Old Parish Reg.for that couple as Edward looked to have been born abt 1827 ish.
Does it say on the microfiche where E.was living at the time....

Thank you. I'd looked at the microfiche record for the church they married in and seen what looked like Marcilia? but never heard that name before :-) not managed to find anything yet on Byran Coffey or Marcilia...but still hoping

Peter...You will find Edwards and Mary's Marrige Reg Dec quarter 1851..Ncle
Parents..Bryan Coffey and Marcilia Coffee
Mary's parents Thomas and Eliz Hodge.

I now have a copy of Margaret O'Neil and John Appleford's marriage cert.(1867).and her father is listed as John O'Neil corporal 66th Foot, her mother looks like Margaret Shaw. She is described as a widow as she is on the 1861 census which I have also now. On the 1861 census her mother (assuming Mrs ONeil , boarder is her mother) appears to have been born in Yorkshire. And John Appleford's parents were a John Appleford sergeant 59th Foot and Rosanna Green
My quest for John Kennedy continues. If he was stationed at Stirling before the birth of John Joseph Kennedy in 1850 then I believe he will have been in the 92nd Foot. I hope to have the time to trawl through all the John Kennedy military records in search of one that fits. That and continue searching for birth details of either Elizabeth Teresa Kennedy or John. Thank you again for all your help on here.

Yes that is my Annabella. Thanks again, I will have to spend more time on the Familysearch site.
I've traced the Coffey's back to Edvardi but haven't found where in Ireland Edward was from or when he came to Newcastle, about 1850 I think.
Edward had a General Dealers shop in the late 1800s and his children seem to have had several Butchers shops, Fishmongers and Fried Fish Dealers at the end of the century but it was all gone by about 1910, I guess as a result of the men dying off. John Kennedy opened a Fried Fish Shop in Walker after he left the army, presumably helped by Anabella's family.

the transcripts are from the Familysearch site.

could his be your annabella's christening?

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Annabella Elizabetha Coffey
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 01 Apr 1860
baptism/christening place: St. Mary, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
birth date: 24 Mar 1860
father's name: Edvardi Coffey
mother's name: Maria Hodge Coffey
indexing project (batch) number: C01725-2
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1936948


Teresa

Maude was my Grandmother. She passed away in the early 90s sadly. Really really wish I'd quizzed her more and made notes..d'oh :-)
Where are you getting these records from Teresa? I didn't know the Catholic records were online? I volunteered to help transcribe the data but was told the archive doesn't have the money to pay for the staff required to oversee the volunteers :-(..but I've also been told the data was transcribed years ago but never put to use..and I was told yesterday that they actually have a team working through them now? the phrase A**e and Elbow springs to mind :-)
Your info re Elizabeth Teresa Kennedy has been big surprise..as has the suggestion elsewhere that he may have changed regiment in India to stay near a family he'd had there. The plot just keeps thickening.

looks like john and Annabella had some of their own children baptised at the same church.


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Mgt. Isabella Kennedy
Name: Mgt. Isabella Kennedy
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 Feb 1885
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary's Clayton Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Joannis Kennedy
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Annae Bellae Coffee
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I05214-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1936949
Reference Number: item 3-4 p 594


Name: Mauda Beatrix Kennedy
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 Sep 1897
Baptism/Christening Place: Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Birth Date: 02 Aug 1897
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Joannis Kennedy
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Annabellae Coffey Kennedy
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01127-3
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1936950
Reference Number: yr 1896-1901 p 86


Name: Joannes Jacobus Kennedy
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 29 Apr 1888
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary's Clayton Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Birth Date: 04 Apr 1888
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Joannis Kennedy
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Isabella Coffey Kennedy
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01125-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1936950
Reference Number: yr 1888-1890 p 142


Name: Josephus Kennedy
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 02 Jul 1890
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary's Clayton Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Birth Date: 04 Jun 1890
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Joannis Kennedy
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Annabella Coffey Kennedy
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01125-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1936950
Reference Number: yr 1888-1890 p 215


Teresa

Wow Teresa, thank you very much :-) I had the marriage of John Appleford and Margaret and am going to get a marriage cert to see what it may tell about her father.
The birth in Dublin is new to me and could explain them being missing from the UK census. Certainly looks like the right people.
The Christening of Elizabeth Teresa Kennedy is a baffler? born in 1861 and baptised in 1887..and baptised in the Cathedral directly opposite my house :-) John junior was living and married to Annabella Coffey, in Newcastle by 1887.
So...maybe John jnr took in his sister age 16 and got her baptised?Where was she before that?
Lots more to look into. thank you again.

not sure if you have these???

Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910 for John Appleford
Groom's Name: John Appleford
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Margret O'Neil
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 12 Mar 1867
Marriage Place: Calton,Glasgow,Lanark,Scotland
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11921-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 6035516
Reference Number:


and


Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881 for Rosanna Appleford
Name: Rosanna Appleford
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date:
Baptism/Christening Place: PALMERSTON, DUB, IRE
Birth Date: 20 Mar 1870
Birthplace: Palmerston, Dub, Ire
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Appleford
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaret Oneill
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C70252-3
System Origin: Ireland-VR
Source Film Number: 101206
Reference Number: 822

...and maybe a death

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915 about Rosanna Appleford
Name: Rosanna Appleford
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1880
Age at Death: 10
Registration district: Woolwich
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 586


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Elizabeth Teresa Kennedy
Name: Elizabeth Teresa Kennedy
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 21 Jan 1887
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary's Clayton Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Birth Date: 25 Oct 1861
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Joannis Kennedy
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaritae O'Neil
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01125-4
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1936950
Reference Number: yr 1885-1888 p 91


Teresa

I now have confirmation that Margret's maiden name was O'Neil. She marries John Appleford in 1867 in Calton, Glasgow.
Interestingly I have come across a John Appleford in the 59 Foot, the same regiment John Joseph Kennedy enlisted in at the age of 15 and am wondering if they were already living with John Appleford and maybe he influenced the choice of regiment?
I've found out a lot more about John Joseph's 25 years in the army now and even have pics of the three ships he travelled on.
The HMS Clyde Kingstown to Ceylon in 1867
HMS Malabar Ceylon to Bombay in 1869
and HMS Jumna Bombay to Portsmouth in 1880.
The Malabar is the same ship Dr Watson returned on in the Sherlock Holmes stories.
And on top of the mystery child Margret Smith, someone has suggested that one of the reasons soldiers changed regiments was because they'd started families where they were posted and their regiment was moving. Will have to start looking for Kennedy's in the far east perhaps ;-)

The O'Neil thing comes from the post above by Flick. It's definitely her living in Woolwich in 1881 and her son William Appleford is listed as from Fleetwood Lancs so the connection seems pretty certain. I only learned this yesterday and haven't considered getting birth certs yet, but will :-)

I do think that Margaret's maiden surname is O'Neill. Did she have any children from her second marriage please? A birth certificate for one of them would confirm her maiden surname.

I am wondering too, if you confess to being "tight", if you really do have a Scots born ancestor (she chuckles!).

I've not got access to the 1851 census here at home as I'm too tight to pay ancestry the full amount every year :-)
Just been looking through my printouts and thought I had one for her in1851 but can't find it. If my memory serves me I think I found her and John jr in Scotland but without John sr who I assumed was away with the army at the time somewhere. I can access the census elsewhere and will try to locate them in 51. You've got me wondering now :-)

Re John Kennedy's existence. I have John jr's wedding cert dated 1884, which lists his father as John Kennedy, Soldier, Deceased. Apart from that the only "proof" is Margaret's being named Kennedy, and the prevous poster's info re Her maiden name of O'Neil would imply she had married a Kennedy And John jr was born in Stirling not Dublin, according to his military records and census records for him. Also my granny used to say her grandfather was a soldier at Stirling.

Ignore that last posting Peter. Here they are (I think) in 1851. John may have been too young when left fatherless and just assumed that his father was John. The place of birth for John is the only thing that makes doubt if this is the correct family.


(I haven't copied all the names below them are there are lots)

1851

Name: Margaret Kennedy
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Banbridge, Down, Ireland <<<<<<<<<<<<<

Civil parish: Weedon Beck
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Daventry
Sub-registration district: Weedon
ED, institution, or vessel: Military Barracks <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Barlow 6
George Barlow 4
Alice Barlow 2
Fanny Barlow 3 MO
Edward Carroll 23
Fanny Carroll 21
Samuel Francis 35
Mary Ann Francis 26
Michael Kennedy 30 Soldier, Cpl. Inf. b. Portglenone, Antrim Co
Margaret Kennedy 20
John Kennedy 1 Son, b. DUBLIN

Peter - the only "proof" that you have of John Kennedy's existence is from his son's marriage certificate?

Maybe I am being over cautious here, but it was not uncommon for "fatherless sons" to invent a father's name on their marriage certificate for appearances and invariably, in my experience the father has the same name and occupation as themselves!!

Have you found Margaret on the 1851 census yet please?

It is possible the young Margaret's father was also present when her birth was registered. In which case she could be registered with his surname If her parents were unmarried (which it looks like as her Mum is still using the Kennedy surname) then her birth will be indexed under both Smith and Kennedy. It is possible that the child died before Margaret moved south.

Cheers. though this Margret Smith confuses the heck out of me. I had her on a print out of that census but couldn't access an image of the census so was unsure if she was a daughter or what. She's certainly not with Margaret in 1881 at her new home in woolwich, and Margaret is still called Kennedy so no other marriage I presume. Was it usual to name an illegitimate child after the father's family rather than the mother's?.
I'm afraid I'm not rich enough to try Scotlandspeople :-(
I'd like to say a big thank you to you all on here, I'm most impressed with the help given and wish I'd coughed up the membership fee ages ago :-)