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What can I say guys. I'm overwhelmed with the responses to the thread. I liked that you managed to think of the English connection. I see Thomas was in the Army. If I get a chance I will pop to Kew to try to check out his Army record.

My sincere thanks to everyone who contributed.

Bryn

Here is JTS in 1851(1852). Fortunately, he wasn't in Howich township [Howick] since "The manuscript census returns for this sub-district/division no longer exist."
NB The agricultural census for Biddulph doesn't exist either

Home / 1852 / Canada West / Huron (county) / 136 Biddulph township / p. 4d, 5a, (9) Split view
15 Stubens, Thomas Farmer England Church of England 52 M
16 Stubens, Jane Ireland Church of England 44 F
17 Stubens, Mary Jane England Church of England 12 F
18 Stubens, Elizbeth England Church of England 10 F
19 Stubens, James Thomas England Church of England 19 M
20 Stubens, Henry William England Church of England 16 M


1851-a: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e095/e002353868.pdf
1851-b/c: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e095/e002353869.pdf
1851-d: http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e095/e002353870.pdf
[Pages c & d are blank for this h/h]


Based on this, here he is in 1841:


1841 England Census
Civil parish: Dudley
Hundred: Halfshire (Lower Division)
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Bath St
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Dudley

Thos Stubbins 40 Army P
Jane Stubbins 35 Ireland
James Stubbins 8
Henry Stubbins 5
Mary Stubbins 1


Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 1196; Book: 8; Civil Parish: Dudley; County: Worcestershire; Enumeration District: 16; Folio: 44; Page: 29; Line: 24; GSU roll: 464207.
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 1196; Book: 8; Civil Parish: Dudley; County: Worcestershire; Enumeration District: 16; Folio: 45; Page: 30; Line: 3; GSU roll: 464207.

Don't know your guys connection, but I'm sure there must be one:
Vol 15, pg 366 - Henry William STUBBINS, 30, farmer, Asia, Howick, s/o Thomas STUBBINS & Jane WILSON, married Philmena HUCK, 18, Canada, Salem - Peel twp., d/o Jacob HUCK & Magdalena SHELL, witn: Donald McKENZIE of Minto & Mary YOUNG of Howick, 24 Jan 1871 at Wroxeter
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onvsr/

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We're looking abt 80km NW of Guelph.
Re 1881 - go to: http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/SearchMapframes.php
Click on Huron, then Howick, then "Click here to generate index of people "

Last Name Stubbins
First Name James Thomas
Post Office Harriston
Township Howick
County Huron
Atlas Date 1879
Concession and Lot Lot size
XI, 32 100

Next click on the get a larger map link:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/images/maps/townshipmaps/hur-m-Howick.jpg

Concession 11 only has 33 lots (then you hit Minto Twp in Wellington Co), so JTS's is almost the most easterly.
Here, a full lot is 100ac = 1000 square chains, so clearly 20 chns x 50 chns (NB 80 chns =1 mile)

Search for Gorrie, Ontario, Canada at: http://maps.google.com/
From Gorrie, head E on Harriston Rd until it changes to Wellington Rd.
At this point, head N on the Howick-Minto Townline until you get to Orange Hill Rd.
This is the concession road in front of JTS's lot.
There's 3 lots between Howick-Minto Townline and Mud Lake Line to east.
JTS's is the middle one N of Orange Hill Rd. Looks like there's still a farm there.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Many things can be gotten thru the LAC gateway:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/index-e.html


A search at:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/western-land-grants/001007-100.01-e.php
shows James Thomas Stubbins got letters patent (i.e., title) to S24NW-T13-R26-W1M on 26/10/1886.
So he probably moved to MB 1883, but could be earlier. [image shows T=13, not 3 - I've done the "Suggest a Correction" thingy]

James Thomas Stubbins, the younger, got patent 25/4/1902 on the adjacent quarter S24SW [again, I've done the "Suggest a Correction" thingy]


William H Stubbins and James's don't have an image, but note the volume #s 745,450,660.
Click on "search help" at top right, and note section "Finding the year the land was granted"


450 April 04, 1911 - April 11, 1911 C-6299
660 March 30, 1915 - April 09, 1915 C-6460-C-6461
745 May 28, 1917 - June 05, 1917 C-6532-C-6533

I didn't find a satisfactory map, but using:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/post-offices/001001-100.01-e.php
gets Hodgeville Sec.4, Twp.14, R.7, W3 - 1908-07-01

It's 172 km from Moose Jaw to Swift Current, so start on this trip.
After abt 110 km turn off the Trans-Canada and head S for 35 km and you're in Hodgeville.
To get to S36NW T13 R8 W3M just head W for 2-3 miles, and it's there on your left.

Just to add a note -- the transcription of Ontario BMDs at Ancestry.ca is an abomination. Your "Kalliaume" is a prime example. No effort at all has been made to produce meaningful transcriptions. When using that database, one *always* has to view the images of the registers to verify -- and also because they often contain loads of information (more than is on an actual certificate in England).

For reference, here's Henry's censuses referred to earlier:

1881: Household:
Name Marital Status Gender Ethnic Origin Age Birthplace Occupation Religion
Thomas STUBINS M Male English 48 England Farmer C. Presbyterian
Ester STUBINS M Female English 30 Ontario C. Presbyterian
James STUBINS Male English 10 Ontario C. Presbyterian
Jane STUBINS Female English 7 Ontario C. Presbyterian
Easter STUBINS Female English 6 Ontario C. Presbyterian
Henry STUBINS Male English 1 Ontario C. Presbyterian
Jane STUBINS W Female Irish 82 Ireland C. Presbyterian
Mary STUBINS Female English 40 England C. Presbyterian
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Census Place Howick, Huron North, Ontario
Family History Library Film 1375909
NA Film Number C-13273
District 175
Sub-district A
Division 2
Page Number 10
Household Number 39


1881: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e329/e008203561.pdf
1891: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148095-00573.pdf
1901-S1: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z001/z000017771.pdf
1901-S2: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z001/z000022580.pdf [24-13-26]
1906: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e049/e001203314.pdf [23/24/24 - 13 - 26]
1911: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002098563.pdf [?-13-8-W3]
[The 1911 image lists Wm @ ?-12-8-W3 like the preceeding household, but Wm's family all at 13-8 - looks like enumerator error since the latter matches his land grant(s)]

Thanks Maureen. Yes William was a farmer and all indications are that he was around the Hodgeville area (they have a typo).

Interesting about the TB hospital. That could certainly be a reason for her being up there. Wow you guys (and gals) are a mine of information. I'm impressed.

I have heard from my Canadian contacts but regrettably they have no info on the place of death, so I think that I'll probably leave Jennie's death as Aug 1915, which is the original info I was given. To put the day and place in when they may be incorrect is probably not the right thing to do. However the more I think about it the more I feel that your death entry is my Jennie, bearing in mind that I was given Aug 1915 in the first place. I really like your theory re TB. I must sleep on it.

Thanks again Maureen, and have a good day.

Bryn

Well,on the marriage cert,William's mother is definitely given as Elizabeth Sararas. He's a widowed farmer and his place of residence is Holtsville,Sask. Obviously the same fellow. I wouldn't worry too much about the difference in names. People make strange mistakes when it comes to filling out official forms!

As for Jennie's death. It certainly does look like her. I wonder what the cause of death was? Just a thought,but there was a TB hospital at Ninette,Manitoba (which is in the Strathcona district).

All speculation on the above!!

Maureen

MGNV - Thank you so much for all the information. It's amazing how you guys are coming up with all this so quickly. You seem to have got your head around the realationships. I am still using my notes and diagrams. Lack of knowledge of the geography of Canada is not helping, but I'm improving on that score.

I've certainly got a lot of info to digest.

One thing I found reassuring in your last but one post is that you picked up on Henry and Jane. Its clear that the Ringland and Stubbins families lived relatively close to each other.

Now this is not really the subject of this thread but as you seem to know this family better than me I will ask my question and raise my concerns. Two heads (or more as the case may be) are better than me alone.

For the past week I have been researching the origins of Jennie and Clara's husband William Henry Stubbins. There don't seem to be many around and I have a possible WHS which seems to be the same as MGNV mentioned.

There are some anomolies in my research and I ask for your views.

On 1881 C I have Henry, aged 1, at Huron North, Ontario.

On 1891 C I have Henry W. aged 11, at Miniota, Marquette, Manitoba.

On 1901 C I have Henry, aged 21, at Miniota, Marquette, Manitoba.

On 1906 C I have Henry, aged 24, at a different house at Miniota, Marquette, Manitoba, with wife JANE. His family have split a bit but all live a few houses away.

I have a few causes for concern that this might not be the WHS I am looking for. My doubts are :

(a) On the 1906 C Henry is shown born Manitoba, but on all earlier C's it was Ontario. I know with so many children and the fact the family moved from Ontario to Manitoba it might be just a simple mistake.

(b) On the 1906 C the wife is JANE. All my information points to the wife being Jennie. The marriage reg'n was as Jennie. It's possible I suppose that this is the enumerator's error or maybe she chose to be called Jane.

(c) This is the biggie !! On the C's from 1871 to 1906 WHS's parents are shown as Thomas and Esther apart from 1871 when father is James. As research says his name was James Thomas Stubbins,that's no problem. The real problem is with the mother, Esther.

Earlier research in this thread shows the mother as being Elizabeth Sararas, not Esther. This came from the Archives of Canada Microfilm MS932_470. I wonder if anyone has the ability to view the document to confirm the transcription.

Now my search in Ancestry for any trees containing Elizabeth or Esther Sararas threw up interesting info. I found a tree which shows the ancestors of a Henry Stubbins (no spouse no children shown). The tree shows the father of this Henry as being James Thomas Stubbins (1831-1904) and Esther "Hettie" Sararas (1851-1920). Interestingly Esther's parents are shown as JacobL Sararas (1906-1893) and Elizabeth Graybill (1810-1880).
This leads me to think that there were errors in the transcription of the marriage details of WHS and CMM in so much that the grandmother's name Elizabeth was picked up instead of the mother's name Esther. Or am I presuming too much?

I would welcome any thoughts anyone might have on this presumption.

Many thanks again to everyone for contributing to this thread.

Bryn

Maureen, Thanks for the possible death entry. This fits in exactly with the info I have about her age and on the face of it I would take it as being my Jennie.

Doubt arises however when I see from the 1911 Census she lived with husband and 2 sons at Moose Jaw, Sask. On the 1916 census her widowed husband lived at Swift Current, Sask.

The death regn you gave me was at Strathcona. Presumably as it was reg'd in Manitoba, this means Strathcona Manitoba. There is a Strathcona in Ontario and Sask. too. Confusing !

I am still drawn to your findings. How many Jennie Stubbins aged 30 (exactly correct) would die in Canada in the month of August 1915. Not many I suspect.

I have contacted my source in Canada who gave me the information about the death being in Aug 1915 to see if they can throw any light onto the place of death.

I will post any news.

Many thanks Maureen.

Bryn

You can read abt prairie addresses at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Land_Survey


There's a 1901 map at:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e034/e000835705.pdf
[Caution - the map is rotated a quarter turn, so North is the right edge]

You can also look up post offices at:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/post-offices/001001-100.01-e.php
Beulah Sec. 4, Twp. 15, R. 26, WPM - 1882-04-01
Arrow River Sec. 25, Twp. 13, R. 26, W - 1883-09-01
[W1M=WPM - Meridian 1 is sometimes known as the prime meridian. In MB it's sometimes omitted as it's the only one of relevance - one just needs to know if you're E or W of it. Here, we're well W of it - in fact the top edge of the map is the MB-SK border]

John and Henry would have undoubtedly met, if only at the grain elevator.
What the significance is, that's for your speculation.

Here's Clara grandparents:

1881 Household:
Name Marital Status Gender Ethnic Origin Age Birthplace Occupation Religion
George RINGLAND M Male Irish 47 Ireland Labourer Church of England
Jane RINGLAND M Female English 42 England Church of England
Mary RINGLAND Female Irish 22 Ontario Church of England
John RINGLAND Male Irish 19 Ontario Church of England
Catherine RINGLAND Female Irish 17 Ontario Church of England
Margaret RINGLAND Female Irish 15 Ontario Church of England
Ellen RINGLAND Female Irish 13 Ontario Church of England
Willam RINGLAND Male Irish 9 Ontario Church of England
George RINGLAND Male Irish 6 Ontario Church of England
Robert RINGLAND Male Irish 4 Ontario Church of England
Maria RINGLAND Female Irish 2 Ontario Church of England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Census Place Caledonia, Haldimand, Ontario
Family History Library Film 1375891
NA Film Number C-13255
District 146
Sub-district H
Page Number 25
Household Number 125


1881: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008189169.pdf
1891: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148142-00099.pdf

I think this is Clara's uncle John + step-kids

1906 Census Page Data
District: MB Marquette District (#5)
Subdistrict: 05 (Townships 13, 14, 15 in ranges 25, 26 west) Page 34
Image: View image using a split screen
Images are from the National Archives Web Site
Details: Schedule 1 Microfilm T-18355
13 235 Ringland John Head M M 45 Links
14 235 Ringland Mary Wife F M 39 Links
15 235 Ringland Ellen Daughter F M 16 Links
16 235 Ringland Annie Daughter F S 11 Links
17 235 Ringland William Son M S 12 Links
18 235 Ringland Robert Son M S 3 Links
19 235 Marshall Peter Servant M S 14

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e049/e001203321.pdf
[John's address is S34-T14-R26-W1M]

By comparison, Henry + Jane's 1906 addy is S24-T13-R26-W1M, so maybe 10 miles away. See:

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e049/e001203314.pdf

Either my computer is working slower than usual today or it's the fault of the Manitoba Vital stats page,but I wonder if this is Jennie's death?
LAST NAME: STUBBINS
GIVEN NAMES: JENNIE
DATE OF DEATH: 07/08/1915
AGE: 30
UNITS OF AGE: YEARS SEX: FEMALE
PLACE OF DEATH: STRATHCONA
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 1915,190423
REGISTRATION DATE:

Maureen

Thank you Maureen. Thank you Richard. Thank you MGNV.

You are all superstars. You are obviously experienced guys and know your way around the places to look for info.
Thanks to you I am learning.

You are all Superstars *****

Well done MGNV, That was one on failed on finding.

Tried searching not even using a surname, Don,t like not finding things.


richard

I'm inclined to put Cath's various namings down to transcription problems, rather than Canadian naming.
As you can see from the census image, Cath is Ontario born of Irish heritage.

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON HAMILTON (City/Cité) (#69)
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 3 C-10 Page 17
Image: View the image with: split screen
Images are from National Archives Web Site
Details: Schedule 1 Microfilm T-6471
11 171 McDole George M Head M Jul 20 1865 35
12 171 McDole Catharine F Wife M Sep 20 1863 37
13 171 McDole Margret J F Daughter S Nov 14 1887 13
14 171 McDole George J M Son S May 14 1893 7
15 171 McDole Claria M F Daughter S May 9 1895 5
16 171 McDole Maud F Daughter S Nov 11 1896 4
17 171 McDole Donald F M M Son S Jan 12 1901
18 171 McDole William J M Son S Feb 6 1899 2
19 171 Ringland George M Lodger M Aug 1874 26
20 171 Ringland Margret F Lodger M Apr 5 1878 22

1901-S1: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000067850.pdf
1901-S2: http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000067833.pdf

Richard and Maureen.

Thank you so much.

It's marvellous that you are able to help.

Bryn

The Manitoba Vital Stats:

http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php

GROOM'S LAST NAME: STUBBINS
GROOM'S GIVEN NAMES: WILLIAM HENRY
BRIDE'S LAST NAME: MCPHERSON
BRIDE'S GIVEN NAMES: JENNIE DATE OF MARRIAGE: 22/11/1905
PLACE OF MARRIAGE: WALLACE
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 1905,001696
REGISTRATION DATE:


Maureen

I think looking at the image margarets mothers name is (K)catherine, The writing of her name is not clearly written so it has just been mistranscribed.

Here is her wedding.

Name: Margaret McDowell
Birth Place: Caledonia
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Father Name: George McDowell
Mother Name: Catharine Ringland<<<<<<<<
Spouse Name: James Stark
Spouse's Age: 37
Spouse Birth Place: Tp of Omeda
Spouse Father Name: James Stark
Spouse Mother Name: Mary Dole
Marriage Date: 23 May 1906
Marriage Location: Haldimand
Marriage County: Haldimand
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_122

In the uk myself.

richard

Richard, you certainly have been working hard on my behalf. That information is so comprehensive it fulfills my purpose as regards the spouse Clara McDowell.
Thank you so much. Your efforts are appreciated.

If I could pick your brains - I See Clara's mother is Catherine and the siblings mother is Catha or Kalliaume. I have no doubt that these are one and the same. It is the name Kalliaume which intrigues me. I never heard it before. I am in UK so am not familiar with Canadian names. It sounds a bit French to me (cf Guillaume). Is this a typical name in Canada ?

Thanks again Richard.

Bryn

parents marriage??

Name: George Mcdowell
Birth Place: Canada
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Father Name: William Mcdowell
Mother Name: Jane Mcdowell
Spouse Name: Catherine Ringland
Spouse's Age: 23
Spouse Birth Place: Canada
Spouse Father Name: George Ringland
Spouse Mother Name: Jane Ringland
Marriage Date: 20 Jan 1887
Marriage Location: Wentworth
Marriage County: Wentworth
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_59

richard