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Will let you know if I find out anything.

The earliest mention I have found so far is in a 1925 tel directory for Kaye and Messenger Ltd, Candle, Taper Manufacurers, Honley tel 86

also in 1921 tel dir.

Jen

I think we have a time delay for messages, it seems to be a 20-30 minute delay, between here in Australia and you in England, as I just sent my last message to you, yours came in to me, by the looks of the time there is definately a delay.

The Candleworks was sold to Kiwi Shoe Polish in the 1970's, Victor Messenger died in 1974. It later became the Sara Lee Factory, which from memory and info given I believe the factory is still on the site, but whether it is still in use or not I have no idea. I will give google maps a go when I check out the oldmaps site.

I know that Victor had a stepdaughter but have not been able to locate her, I think she lives in Wales, I am sure if I could find her she may be able to give me information on the Candleworks. I'm sure it will all happen one day just need to keep plodding on. Please let me know what your husbands cousin can remember.

Taylor

Rutlandbelle (Jen)

Thanks so much for your info, I will check out the oldmaps site. We know that Arthur and Albert were tallowfarmers, candlemakers from the 1901 Census. Albert and his wife lived at field house, they had no children.

We are trying to establish when it became a registered business and the business name became Kaye & Messenger Candleworks, it seems to have been known in the area as the Candleworks but it's proper name we are led to believe was Kaye and Messenger Candleworks, it's interesting that on the old map (which I haven't looked at yet) you say it is down as Kaye's Candle Works.

Would love to know where the Kaye part of it comes in, keep coming up blanks. Is your husbands cousin still alive, do you think he may remember who was running the place or the names of the manager or managers in the 1960's.

I will see if I can obtain a copy of the James Mason DVD you mentioned.

You have been very helpful and so kind to help me, thankyou so much, I really do appreciate it.

Taylor

Taylor, I will have to phone my husband's cousin later, but I did post somethings else above , don't know if you caught it or not about where I saw the bit about the candle works.

Out of interest we looked at the 1911 and it does say that Albert was an Employer at that time.

We just looked on google maps also and though Forestry Buildings are still there the rest has all altered.

Thankyou Victoria

Sorry for the delayed reply I have been looking at the website given by rutlandbelle, unfortunately did not find any info on the Candleworks.

Your findings on Albert and Arthur Messenger are correct, they are the Tallow Farmers, Candlemakers I am following.

On your last post all the other Messengers are also my Messenger side of the family. I don't think any of them except Irvin & Victor as far as we know went into the Candleworks business.

Victor had no children and I have been unable to find any for Irvin although they both married, we know about Victor but I find it strange not to find any children for Irvin and his wife.

I am hopeful that rutlandbelle (Jen) will be able to get some more information from her husband or his cousin in regards to the Candleworks, it is the only glimmer for some kind of information at the moment.

Thankyou once again
Taylor

Victoria has found Field House which is on the map I looked at in 1908, so obviously making candles then

Chris, my husband remembers the 'Candle Works' as it was always called. He delivered papers around there in the late 50's early 60's.

Now if you look on : www.oldmaps.co.uk and search for Honley you will see that in 1908 the works were not there (look for Field House and Forestry Buildings) but on the 1938 map you will see there is Kaye's Candle Works.

I remembered where I had seen the bit about the candle works. It was in a documentary made by James Mason (the actor and Huddersfield born). I bought it for my husband for a present from Amazon. It is actually at the end of a DVD film of James Mason's called 'The Seventh Veil'
At the end is an extra called 'Home James' which is a fascinating insight to what was a very industrial area which you may find interesting.

Jennifer

PS we didn't actually watch the film only the bit at the end!

on find my past I have found that using the * for the generic works sometimes

* tallow * to get the words before and after (not 100% though!)

i searched for messenger in Honley only



census
image
Household MESSENGER, Albert 1874 37 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Alice 1875 36 F Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Annie 1865 46 F Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Arthur 1866 45 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Elsie 1892 19 F Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Ernest E 1887 24 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Harold 1896 15 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Irvin A 1899 12 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, John A 1864 47 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Lex 1838 73 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Mabel 1891 20 F Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Norman L 1905 6 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Sarah 1839 72 F Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Sarah 1866 45 F Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Stanley 1893 18 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household MESSENGER, Victor 1901 10 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW

MESSENGER, Albert Head Married M 37 1874 Wax And Tallow Candle Maker And Tallow Melter Kirkburton Yorkshire VIEW
MESSENGER, Alice Wife Married
10 years F 36 1875 Armitage Bridge Yorkshire VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
26211 Reference:
RG14PN26211 RG78PN1515 RD495 SD2 ED10 SN226

Registration District:
Huddersfield Sub District:
Honley Enumeration District:
10 Parish:
Honley

Address:
Field House Neiley Honley County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

ame Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

MESSENGER, Arthur Head Married M 45 1866 Tallow Chandler Yorks Kirkburton VIEW
MESSENGER, Sarah Wife Married
22 years F 45 1866 Yorks Honley VIEW
MESSENGER, Elsie Daughter Single F 19 1892 Worsted Piece Mender Yorks Honley VIEW
MESSENGER, Victor Son M 10 1901 Scholar Yorks Honley VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
26213 Reference:
RG14PN26213 RG78PN1515 RD495 SD2 ED12 SN71

Registration District:
Huddersfield Sub District:
Honley Enumeration District:
12 Parish:
Honley

Address:
23 Cooperative Terrace Honley County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

on original gives industry as candle maker, personal occupation is tallow chandler

Thanks Jen

You are correct about the candleworks being at Neilly, Brockholes near Honley, its just easier to talk about Honley Huddersfield when talking about Census.

I do so hope your husband or his cousin will know some more about the Candleworks and if your husbands cousin worked there in the 1960's he would know the owners or managers names, if he does we are interested in Victor Messenger who is our relative and if he knows who the Kaye part of the name was would be excellent.

Please do get back to me if you find out anymore. I will give the occupation codes a try on the 1911 as you suggest.

Taylor

Have a look on here, I'm sure in the past I have seen something about the candle works

http://www.yfaonline.com/yfapublic/index.cfm

PS. Unfortunately Kaye is a very common name in the Huddersfield area

Re: Occupation codes on 1911. If you go onto the official 1911 web site click on HELP & ADVICE you wil then see a drop down-click on Occupation Codes and you can use the number they give to search on.

As far as I know the works used to be at Neilly, Brockholes nr Honley, will ask my husband. I know his cousin worked at a candle making works there in the 60's

Jennifer

Thanks for the replies Brummiejan

I live in Australia so am not familiar with the Archive Centre in Huddersfield however I have tried to look up the trade directories before, the name of them escapes me at present however there was no entry for the Kaye and Messenger Candleworks on the years that it covered.

I'm afraid the marriages are not part of my family, I traced the Louie Messenger lead quite some time ago and unfortunately it is not relevant to my family line. We have gone back to 1766 with the Messenger family and we don't have a Frances.

Will keep trying, my contact in England has written to the Huddersfield Examiner and the Holmfirth website who have helped before with Family History queries so hopefully she will get a result. We have tried the Huddersfield and District Family History Society and they have no knowledge of the Candleworks at all. I find this very strange as it would even if small be a part of the areas history and particularly when this a small note on the web in regard to it. It was sold to the Kiwi Shoe Polish people in the 1970's and then later on became the Sara Lee Factory, this is where the reference to it mainly comes from.

Thanks again for your input
Taylor

Grasping at straws a bit!

Marriages Sep 1854 (>99%)
Kaye John Huddersfield 9a 331
MELLOR John Huddersfield 9a 331
MESSENGER Frances Huddersfield 9a 331
Wimpenny Esther Huddersfield 9a 331


Marriages Sep 1919 (>99%)

Kaye Louie Messenger Huddersfield 9a 937
Messenger Jack Kaye Huddersfield 9a 937

Not really sure what to suggest. The Kaye name might just be that someone with a few bob invested in it.
Have you been to the archives centre for Huddersfield - they might have trade directories?
Jan

Hi Jan

I am trying to find someone with the surname Kaye who was a Tallow Farmer or Candlemaker in the Huddersfield District because I have two relatives, brothers who were Tallow Farmers and Candlemakers and they had the Kaye and Messenger Candleworks in Honley, Huddersfield.

There is very little information about the Kaye and Messenger Candleworks on the net, and I have had everyone looking for more info for a long time now, I gave up until a lady contacted me and she is the niece of my ancestors wife.

We are both desperately trying to find out more information on the Candleworks and where the Kaye part of it fits in. We suspect that the Kaye person became a partner but don't know when.

I have tried searching business registrations on the National Archive website and am afraid it is all too overwhelming for me to cope with and I didn't manage to get anywhere and don't even know if I was searching the right links.

I was hoping that if we could search the Census by Occupation it may bring up someone with the surname Kaye so we could try and follow it up. There are absolutely no Kaye surnames on our tree by marriage or otherwise so we can't fathom the connection, other than they must have become a partner at some stage.

Hope this explains things.

Taylor

Not really - have had a look too but no luck. Can I ask how come you are looking for this?
Jan

Thanks Brummiejan

Sorry I have been away trying the Census but I can't get anything up under the surname Kaye with the Occupation Tallow Farmer or Candlemaker.

I have even tried a known ancestor and put in occupation and as soon as I do that it won't even bring him up.

The location and residence I am looking for is Huddersfield, Yorkshire West Riding. Any suggestions?

The free search is much better anyway for locating people. If you find them let us know and we can access transcript for you. Or if you have trouble come back.
Jan