Find Ancestors

Could anyone please help me with tracking down details on William Kay, my gggrandfather? He was born in Ellesmere Salop in mid 1830's. I have his records from 1871 census onwards living in Liverpool and married to Sarah. He is listed variously as a labourer, carter and watchman. But cannot find him on the 1841, 51 and 61 censuses. He isn't the William Kay born in Prees Shropshire, who has his own entry on the 1871 census. I've tried some of the more obvious variations of his surname but drawn a blank. and I am now stuck.. Any ideas would be very welcome! Many thanks.

Is this him in 1881?

Name: William Kay
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Ellesmere, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 1 Langsdale St
Condition as to marriage: Widow

Occupation: Labourer

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William Kay 47
Thomas H. Kay 14
Mary Kay 12
Frederick Kay 8
Lucy F. Kay 7
Elizabeth Jones 50

and 1871:-
Name: William Kay
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Welch Hampton, Shropshire, England
Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Household schedule number: 145
Household Members:
Name Age
William Kay 37 - Labourer
Sarah Kay 37 - born: Brockton, Staffordshire
Sarah A Kay 5
Thomas Kay 4
May Kay 2
Mary Wollam 50 - visitor born: Welch Hampton, Shropshire
Charles Richardson 48 - lodger
Thomas Chamberland 60
William Chamberland 28

Yes this is the right one in 1871 and 1881. I was just hoping I might find earlier census entries to give me a clue on his parents etc. Thank you for looking!

1851
Name: William Key
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Ellesmere, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Whitchurch
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Wem
Sub-registration district: Wem
ED, institution, or vessel: 1h
Neighbors: View others on page

There are these births on familysearch.org.

WILLIAM KEY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 15 DEC 1833 Cheswardine, Shropshire, England
Father: WILLIAM KEY
Mother: ANN

WILLIAM KEY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 OCT 1833
Gender: Male Christening: 20 OCT 1833 Broad Street Wesleyan, Ludlow, Shropshire, England
Father: CHARLES KEY
Mother: SARAH

WILLIAM KAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 APR 1835 Rodington, Shropshire, England
Father: GEORGE KAY
Mother: ELIZABETH

Do you have his marriage cert. to Sarah?
If yes, then what was his father's name and occupation?

This may be him in 1841.....there is a Mary Woolham in this household and a Mary Wollam of around the same age living with him in 1871.

1841 England Census
about William Keay
Name: William Keay
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Welsh Hampton
Hundred: Pimhill (Ellesmere Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Ellesmere
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Woolhouse 70....Farmer ....Woolham on image.
William Woolhouse 30....Ag Lab
Mary Woolhouse 20
John Beawdor 13
William Keay 9

All born in County.

Possible 1841:-
Name: William Keay
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Welsh Hampton
Hundred: Pimhill (Ellesmere Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Ellesmere
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Woolhouse 70
William Woolhouse 30
Mary Woolhouse 20
John Beawdor 13
William Keay 9


1841 for the Charles and Sarah birth:-
Name: William Key
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Coreley
Hundred: Stottesden (Cleobury Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Occupation:

Registration district: Cleobury Mortimer
Sub-registration district: Cleobury Mortimer
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Davise 7
Charles Key 35
Sarah Key 30
Elizabeth Key 8
William Key 6
Mary Key 4
Charles Key 2


and the George and Elizabeth birth:-
1841
Name: William Keay
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Ercall Magna
Hundred: South Bradford (Wellington Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration district: Wellington
Sub-registration district: Ercall Magna
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Keay 35
Elizabeth Keay 40
Charlotte Keay 13
Hannah Keay 12
Mary Keay 10
William Keay 6

Many thanks to you all for these leads. I am amazed how quickly you have come up with the information. I'm afraid I don't have his marriage certificate - there seemed to be too many possibities on BMD to go down that route at this stage.

Thank you again for all the help.

Possible record for Mary Woollam, in case there is a connection:-

MARY WOOLLAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 11 FEB 1821 Edstaston, Shropshire, England
Father: JOHN WOOLLAM
Mother: MARTHA


possible siblings:-
1. SAMUEL WOOLLAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 MAR 1819 Edstaston, Shropshire, England
2. ANN WOOLLAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 09 FEB 1823 Edstaston, Shropshire, England
3. HANNAH WOOLLAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 30 DEC 1832 Wem, Shropshire, England
4. THOMAS WOOLAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 DEC 1817 Edstaston, Shropshire, England
5. JOHN WOLLAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 APR 1825 Edstaston, Shropshire, England
6. JOHN WOOLAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 DEC 1825 Edstaston, Shropshire, England

The best way to find the correct marriage cert. is to first of all buy the birth cert. of one of their children. In this way you will find the maiden name of the mother, then you can find the marriage cert. with more certainty. Costs money, but if you want to be absolutely certain of what you have found then it's well worth paying.
The marriage cert. should give you his father's name and occupation, if known, so you can confirm any info. found.

Catherine Thanks. Yes I think I will try again. I have had no luck in tracking down my ggrandmother's birth certificate (Sarah Ann Kay in Liverpool in ca 1866). But I can try with one of her siblings instead.!

Best regards

Here you are ..... Lucy's birth certificate


Births Mar 1874 (>99%)

KAY Lucy Frances Liverpool 8b 214




sylvia

Here's a possible for Sarah Ann Kay:-

Births Sep 1865 (>99%)
Kaye Sarah Ann Liverpool 8b 233

Thanks again to you all. I've ordered Lucy's certificate (before having seen that Catherine had possibly tracked down Sarah's). So hopefully that will take me a stage further.

I promised an update and sorry for delay - GRO takes a long time to send certificates abroad!. In brief. I would still welcome advice on how to track down WIlliam;s birth and ([possible) linkage to the Woolham family. It's a bit of a challenge I'm afraid!

Thanks to GR help here, I have William in 1851 in Whitchurch and now have him in 1861 in Liverpool under William Hay - lodger. Lucy's birth certificate gave her mother as Sarah Hill. So my questions are now about his early life and the story behind the 1841 census entry.

William's marriage certificate gives his father as Thomas Key, labourer (spelling seems to have altered from Keay to Key to Kay during Williams's lifetime). Despite hunting through the census amd free BMD, I still feel no closer to knowing why William might have been boarding with the Woolhams at the age of 9. (Incidentally, it also looks as if a possible brother Joseph might have been boarding with another branch of the Woolhams). Was Thomas his father in jail or dead??

'Ive tried the Shrohpshire Family HIstory Society, but no obvious answer there. And enquires to Woolham researchers on Ancestry remain unanswered. I wondered if anyone out there could establish a family link between the Ke(e)ys and the Woolhams inyjr1830sor 40s. Apologies for a really involved question and thank you for any further help you can give.

Hello again!

Now that you know the maiden name of Sarah was Hill, then this would seem to be their marriage:-

Marriages Sep 1864 (>99%)
Bird Catherine Liverpool 8b 426
Giovanni John Liverpool 8b 426
xxxx Hill Sarah Liverpool 8b 426
xxxx Key William Liverpool 8b 426


If you have the cert. then who was the father of Sarah?

Hi Catherine. Sarah's father was Thomas too and also a a labourer. I think I have been able to track her family back quite a way. Mother Ruth, based around Huntington and Brockton Staffs. Some overlap too with existing Ancestry trees.
So the early years of William Keay/Key/Kay are the last questions I have on this side of the family, A part of me suspects that William just gave the same answers as Sarah re his father - so not sure what weight to put on his father details in the marriage certificate! Thank you for your continued interest and help.

1841 census doesn't give reliable dates of birth so I've been having a look at Mary Woolham in the other census records to see what she gives as her date of birth in them:-

1851:-
Name: Mary Wootham
[Mary Woolham]
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Welchampton, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Tushingham
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Occupation: General Servant

Registration district: Nantwich
Sub-registration district: Bunbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
John Large 65
Elizabeth Large 71
Robert Large 40
Henry Large 36
William Henry Large 7
George Cartwright 17
William Ellson 14
Mary Wootham 30


1861
Name: Mary Woolham
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Welshampton, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Tattenhall
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Occupation: Dairymaid

Registration district: Great Boughton
Sub-registration district: Tattenhall
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Rider 30
Thomas Boote 16
Thomas Brookes 14
Mary Woolham 40
Elizabeth Rawlinson 14

...........I wanted to see her age as I had a feeling that William just may have been her illegitimate son but she still gives her date of birth as 1821 which would mean that she would have been 13/14yrs. old when she gave birth. That's a bit young even for those days.
Back to the drawing board.

Hi Cathnl, will have another look!

Hi Catherine. Again thank you for your efforts! I may be putting too much weight on this, but if a Joseph Keay aged 2 in Wem is living close to Woolhams too, then perhaps it is more likely to be a marriage between a female Keay and a male Woolham, and both meet an untimely end???? Surely an illegitmate birth from a Woolham would have given William that surname rather than Keay? All a bit confusing! Heading off now, but will be back tomorrow Dv.