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No worries Janette

Take care Julie :o))

Hi Julie thanks for your help and all the other people.My mums maiden name was Redfern so i think i will order Alberts B/C thanks again.

Who are you a direct descendent of because i would get that one

But either one of those 2 will be ok

Hi Julie on the wedding certificate it just says that John Kirk and Eliza redfern were both widowers. which birth certificate should i get?thanks

Births Sep 1857 (96%)
Redfern Albert Sheffield 9c 298

Births Mar 1861 (>99%)
REDFERN Henry Harvey Sheffield 9c 315

This is very confusing. You're right Julie. Janette seemed so sure that I assumed she must have had some other sources which had confirmed that marriage was correct.

Janette

I don't know for sure but it looks like the Eliza that married John kirk isn't the same Eliza that married Charles Redfern

Does it not say on her M/C to John what her maiden name was

To be honest with you i would get one of the childrens B/C's to see what Eliza's maiden name was & then look for a 1st marriage

Hi Julie so did Eliza marry William Redfern and not Charles?and then went on to marry John Kirk thanks

The Eliza that Married Charles in 1836 is not the same Eliza that married John Kirk

This is the 1861...for the family that Andrew found.......So 2 different familys

Mary Redfearn
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Yorks W R, Penistone
Civil parish: Penistone
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Wortley
Sub-registration district: Penistone
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza Redfearn 43
Thomas Redfearn 16
Jane Redfearn 14
Mary Redfearn 11
Hannah Redfearn 8
William C Redfearn 6
Benjamin Redfearn 3
Eliza Redfearn 2
________________________

Same family in the 1871

Eliza Redfearn
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Penistone, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Penistone
Ecclesiastical parish: Penistone
Town: Penistone
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wortley
Sub-registration district: Penistone
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza Redfearn 53
Thos Redfearn 25
Mary Redfearn 21
Willm Chs Redfearn 16
Benjn Redfearn 13
Eliza Redfearn 12
Henry Richardson 29

That marriage is for the couple on the 1851

& Janette has said that Eliza was born in Sheffield 1822

So really in all the only thing that is correct at the mo is the 1861 showing John Kirk as a lodger

1881...again she is saying Sheffield

Eliza Kirk
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1828
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address: 7 In Court 20 Pond St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: South Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Kirk 63
Eliza Kirk 53
Albert Kirk 23
Henry Kirk 20
Samuel Healey 18

Julie,
I meant that we could rule it out the marriage from 1843, as we now know that she married in 1836. He may have used the name William instead of Charles.
I think Andrew has found the correct census.
David

Another possible 1851

1851 England Census
about George Redfern
Name: George Redfern
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Penistone, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Penistone
Ecclesiastical parish: Penistone
Town: Penistone
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Wortley
Sub-registration district: Cawthorne
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Redfern 38
Eliza Redfern 33
George Redfern 13
Sarah Ann Redfern 10
Thomas Redfern 7
Jane Redfern 4
Mary Redfern 1week
Joseph Webb 27


Poss 1841. This would mathch with 1836 marriage.

1841 England Census
about Charles Redfearn
Name: Charles Redfearn
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Penistone
Hundred: Staincross
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Wortley
Sub-registration district: Penistone
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Redfearn 25
Eliza Redfearn 20
George Redfearn 3



Andy

David

i don't think we can rule it out as you say.....As that matches the 1851...and the Eliza in that with daughter Jane matches the 1861

Hi Eliza was born in sheffield 1822. ive just been told by my son her father was a John Lee were it says Profession he was a shoe heel grinder but they had put the shoe part in the colum next to his surname very missleading.sorry.but do you think that she was born Illegitimate?and was her first husband charles called william and used his middle name?thanks and sorry again.

I think we can rule that one out now, as Janette seems sure about the details she has already.

A marriage with a William & Eliza in the same QTR

Marriages Sep 1843 (>99%)
BROWN William Sheffield 22 427
CHESTER Eliza Sheffield 22 427
HOBSON George Sheffield 22 427
KNOWLES Sarah Sheffield 22 427
PAUL Martha Sheffield 22 427
REDFEARN William Sheffield 22 427
TAYLOR Peter Sheffield 22 427
WOOD Harriot Sheffield 22 427

Where was she born?

According to the 1851 Mr Redfrens name was William

William Redfearn
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Sheffield
Ecclesiastical parish: Dyers Hill
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: South Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 77
Household Members:
Name Age
William Redfearn 28
Eliza Redfearn 27
John Redfearn 5
Jane Redfearn 2
Sarah Ann Redfearn 3 Mo


I think she would have been a bit to young to marry in 1836

It looks as if Eliza was illegitimate then, as she doesn't have the same name as her father. Without actually seeing the certificate, I don't think we'll be able to help.