Find Ancestors

Thanks everyone for your help, its given me lots to work at. Mark

Yes I`ve noticed an awaful lot of these Manleys do come from Ireland.

No luck finding sarah or James in 1901...

I`ve even checked the migration lists which start at 1890, but can`t really pinpoint anyone that could be any of them.

Talking of trying to avoid the police or someone, that also may be why they moved around so much, what with that and the possibility that they changed their names....

Also looked in 1901 for Elizabeth Manley born 1890 Gorton.........but no luck.


Nicky

Hi Nicky

I did realise later that I had mis-understood you ...... but by then the posting had been there for some time, so I decided to leave it.


It is not unknown for people to change their names. I remember some one some time ago who had the same problem. It finally coms down to the fact that the load of circumstantial evidence is so great that one has to accept that this is what happened.

Often the reason is because something has happened .... e.g., trying to avoid either the police or some person.


It is interesting that this family seems to have retained the surname Manley ................ although may be not so surprising. I did discover quite a few Manleys living in Wales, with some of a similar age to Edward, and born in Ireland. Possible siblings or cousins???




sylvia

Hi Sylvia

When I put up the census entry for Anora John and Grandson Edward, I didn`t mean that John was the father...just that Jeremiah could be calling himself John as they were both born Stalybridge Yorks in 1876.

I think grandson Edward is the son of James b1863 ...as found by you in 1891 living next door to the main Manley clan, and was questioning wether James could in fact be Timothy...

Especially as there seems to be no Timothy Manley marriage....infact no Timothy Manley anything

I think the fact that Timothy disappears after the 1881 census, there is a strong possibility that he was known by another name .


Off to see if I can find James and Sarah in 1901....if their son is with Grandma, they presumably must be somewhere.


Nicky

These are the only Jeremiah Manley's who show up on freebmd.org.uk


Births Jun 1876 (>99%)

Manley Jeremiah Halifax 9a 531


Deaths Sep 1920 (99%)

MANLEY Jeremiah 44 Sheffield 9c 505


Marriages Dec 1937 (>99%)

Manley Jeremiah Keleher Leeds North 9b 751
Keleher Margaret B Manley Leeds North 9b 751


If we assume that the one died in 1920 is the one who was born in 1876/7 ........... then who is the one who married in 1937?






sylvia

exhibit 1

Marriages Mar 1882 (>99%)

Foulds Sarah Jane Todmorden 9a 273
Manley Timothy Todmorden 9a 273
MOORE Sarah Todmorden 9a 273
SUTCLIFFE Thomas Todmorden 9a 273



NO marriage for a James Manley to a Sarah



Edward's birth registration ..... Ashton is the registration district that includes Mossley


Births Jun 1887 (>99%)

Manley Edward Ashton 8d 556




sylvia

The weird thing is that I can find, eg, Margaret born Cardiff with mother Honora(h) .................. but the surname is not Manley, and the father is not Edward.

and I've found a Timothy Manley ......... but not with these parents.



As for the moving about ....................... I wonder if Edward was working on diggings for the trains or canals? Or were they all finished by the 1870s/1880s?



Re the 1901 ...... Edward is born in Mossley in both the 1891 and 1901 ..... so looks like the same boy.


BUT John can't be his father .............. he was only born in 1877, which means he was 10 when Edward was born


You're sticking at it more than I am! I keep going and doing other things!!!




sylvia

Wondering about this one in 1901......could Jeremiah be calling himself John?? they are both born in Stalybridge Yorks......note grandsons name is Edward.....is that after grandad?? Is this the child next door to the Manley clan in 1891 with parents James and Sarah.....Is James really Timothy?? he`s born the same year .........The mystery deepens...

MANLEY, John Head Single M 24 1877 General Labourer
Staleybridge
Yorkshire VIEW
MANLEY, Ann Mother Widow F 60 1841
Ireland VIEW
MANLEY, Edward Grand Son Single M 14 1887 Errand Boy
Mossley
Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3259 Folio:
123 Page:
19

Registration District:
Chesterfield Sub District:
Eckington EnumerationDistrict:
28 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Beighton St Mary

Civil Parish:
Beighton Municipal Borough:
Address:
Armstead Road, Beighton County:
Derbyshire

Nicky

Have you EVER known a family move about like this one?? I thought some of mine were bad enough...they havn`t had 2 children in succesion born in the same place!! their marriages could be anywhere....no wonder we can`t track them all...

IF this is Catherine's birth registration

Name: Catherine Manley
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 259



then


why can't I find her on the 1871 Census?????????????




sylvia

Hi Nicky


That's very possible ..... I was trying to imagine what had been said in an Irish accent to a Lancashire enumerator, and how it might have been misintepreted!


it seems that they did have an abhorrence of registering births!! I thought Timothy would have been relatively easy to find!




sylvia

Norah marries in 1903 in Nottingham..she is in Nottingham on the 1901 census..Here she is with her family in 1911......

notice eldest child is Lenora....is this another clue to Honora/Ann/Anoras real name???

HOWETT, Walter Head Married M 29 1882 Cabinet Maker Newark Notts VIEW
HOWETT, Nora Wife Married F 26 1885 Preston Lancs VIEW
HOWETT, Lenora Daughter F 3 1908 Nottingham VIEW
HOWETT, Ernest Edward Son M 2 1909 Nottingham VIEW
HOWETT, Irene Sarah Daughter F 0 (8 MONTHS) 1911 Nottingham VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20559 Reference:
RG14PN20559 RG78PN1230 RD430 SD3 ED19 SN263

Registration District:
Nottingham Sub District:
Nottingham North East EnumerationDistrict:
19 Parish:
Nottingham

Address:
1 Lewis St Nottingham County:
Nottinghamshire


EDIT...Sylvia Re. the 1891 entry where wife is down as Ann N.....Do you think they said to the enumerator that that her name was Anora and he thought it was Ann Nora?....so wrote that down...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicky

This looks likely to be Michaels birth reg...

Births Jun 1867 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manley Michael Abergavenny 11a 64


Mark I really think you need to get the birth cert. of either Michael ,Jeremiah or Norah so as to confirm Anoras maiden name..... there are people on these boards with records for Ireland, so if you get the correct names and the marriage does look likely to be Ireland then you should be able to get some help.


Nicky

I have tried every little trick that I can think of ................... and nothing!



sylvia

This looks like Norahs birth reg....


Births Mar 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manley Norah Mary Sculcoates 9d 150

Sculcoates covers Preston.

Like you Sylvia could find Norah, but none of the others...


Nicky

Ok

so she was on the 1891 as Ann N


I have been unable to find a birth registration for any child except Jeremiah!

Norah was by herself as a boarder on the 1901


and that is the sum of what I've been able to find!



There is a Public Family Tree on ancestry ........ but he has no sources listed, and in fact the infromation is solely what was on the 1881 Census ....... so I'm not optimistic that he had put much research into it, nor that it is helpful!



sylvia

Well Honora/ Ann is a widow by 1911....the other children are hard to trace, and can`t seem to find birth regs. for them...

MANLEY, Anora Head Widow F 78 1833 Old Age Pensioner Ireland Resident VIEW
MANLEY, Jeremiah Son Single M 40 1871 General Labourer Lancs Manchester VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
24160 Reference:
RG14PN24160 RG78PN1387 RD466 SD3 ED27 SN314

Registration District:
Manchester Sub District:
St George EnumerationDistrict:
27 Parish:
Manchester

Address:
11 Oram Street Queen's Road Manchester County:
Lancashire


Image definetly says Anora...so we can presume that is her correct name as 1911 census were filled in by the householder themselves.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicky

I'm beginning to think that they were going under a different name in Wales


OR that the children born in Wales are Honora's not Edward's




sylvia

Birth registration for Jeremiah

Name: Jeremiah Manley
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Halifax
County: Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 9a
Page: 531



sylvia

Here is the fmaily in 1891


1891 Census

Name: Edward Manley
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann N
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Gorton
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Gorton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Ardwick

Edward Manley 57
Ann N Manley 53 b.ca 1838, Ireland
Edward Manley 26 b.ca 1865, Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales, Labourer
Katerine Manley 20 b.ca 1871, Cardiff, Domestic Servant
Mary A Manley 18 b.ca 1873, Bradford, Yorkshire, Domestic Servant
Jeremiah Manley 15 b.ca 1876, Sourby Bridge, Yorkshire, Labourer
Norah Manley 6 b.ca 1885, Preston, Lancashire, Daughter, Scholar
Elizabeth Manley 6/12 b.ca 1890, Gorton

Address:- 5 Hamlet Street


I really doubt that Elizabeth is really the child of Edward and Ann N


Living next door at #3 Hamlet Street is

Name: James Manley
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Wales

James Manley 28
Sarah Manley 27
Edward Manley 4




sylvia

What information are you looking for? Do you have any of the childrens birth certificates? they will give Honoras maiden name, and from that you may be able to trace a marriage...

Whats the earliest census you have found them on..I see on the 1881 that the eldest child with them was born c1861........


Nicky