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Yes I have bought the certificate but it hasn't arrived yet. Birthdate is 28th Dec 1859.
I am quite confident that William is the father .
This "Trying to find" board is excellent. Wish I'd found it years ago.
Thanks to everybody

Were they able to tell you when he was born? If you had bought the certificate it would give the exact date and you could then decide whether William Goody may or may not have been his father.

On the 1871 census he is stated as being 11 so a birth in 1859 or 1860 is possible. His parents married in early 1861, his little sister being born about the same time, so they had known each other since early 1860. Therefore it is quite possible that he was William's father - especially as his own name is William.

Much depends on why you are carrying out this research. If it's to determine the blood line of your family then it can't be done without DNA testing. You simply don't know for certain who your own father is, let alone grandparents and any earlier on. If the Register Office had told you the father was William Goody (and I do have a relative registered in the unmarried mother's name but the father is also named on it), you would have gone away quite happy that it was true - and it may not have been.

I take the view that if this chappy brought him up as his own son (and he probably is his own son), then he and his ancestors are worthy of being included in the family tree, perhaps more so than a biological father who dies or clears off.

The very helpful people at Colchester registry office have found William's birth certificate under the name of FISHER> No Father. It means I can't go any further back on the GOODY line as there is no proof of paternity.
Thanks to all who took the time to reply.

Well, I've always been pushy!

I will do just that.
If it comes up trumps I'll let you know.
Thanks for the push !

Unless Ian has infortmation to help, I really would go down the route I suggested and contact the Colchester records office. What is stopping you from doing that?

Ian, received you PM about William Goody being born 8th December 1859 to William Goody and Hannah Fisher (unmarried).
Appreciate you are too busy to supply the details but perhaps you could just tell me where to look.
I want to be sure William snr. is indeed the boy's father before researching the paternal line.

You have misunderstood me. The two births that Rose found are Civil Registrations, and those records are at Colchester. I was suggesting you write to them asking if one of those was to Hannah Fisher, unmarried.

This is the address:

The Register Office, Stanwell House, Stanwell Street, Colchester, CO2 7DL.
Tel: 01206 572926. Fax: 01206 540626.
E-mail: [email protected]

This office is a local government department, not a family history centre.

Parish Registers are of church baptisms, marriages and burials, and may well be at Chelmsford (as you have said in your PM to me), but they won't include people who weren't baptised, who married in Register Offices, or who weren't buried in a churchyard.

Chelmsford had Colchester's parish registers on film and fiche when I was there. As I found nothing, it was suggested that Wm Goody might have been christened at the military chapel if his father was in the services. Unlikely as he was a factory worker on the censuses. However, I requested a search there but nothing came up.

Colchester official records are not held at Chelmsford, but at Colchester itself: At least that is my understanding.

I am talking about the Register Office, not any other type of office.

A Register Office will hold governmental records, not church records.

Here are the contact details:

The Register Office, Stanwell House, Stanwell Street, Colchester, CO2 7DL.
Tel: 01206 572926. Fax: 01206 540626.
E-mail: [email protected]

These local Register Offices have been a godsend to me in my own research. They are staffed by real people who reply to letters promptly and answer telephones in a real voice. In my experience, they are people who enjoy their jobs. Worth their weight in gold. Will go the extra mile.

You can't "commission" them, as such, to look for you, but if you give them some short parameters to work from they will usually do their damndest to find the person you are wanting.

They can't give out information for free. So lets say they find four William Fishers around that time. They might ring you up (and they do, on Saturdays too) and say "We have four Wiliam Fishers. One is born to a married couple, one is born to a Mary Fisher, one is born to a Hannah, but she is married and the other might fit your criteria, but I can't confirm that". So that means, reading between the lines, that the last one is yours. Worth a £7 gamble.

I have been to Chelmsford records office where the Colchester records are kept but found neither birth or christening. Didn't know I could commission someone to look for me unless I had a date or ref no. to go on.

Those two births that Rose gave you were REGISTERED in March 1860, but he could actually have been born in the December quarter. He says he is 19 in December 1878, so a birth in November/early December 1859 would be right with his marriage cert. That also fits with the censuses and age at death, apart from 1861, when it's quite possible they gave his age as 1 1/2 and the enumerator rounded it up to 2.

I'd write to the Colchester Records office, explain you are looking for William Fisher born to Hannah Fisher (unmarried), born 1859, enclosing a cheque for £7 and an sae. If they don't have such a birth, they won't cash your cheque, so it only costs you a couple of stamped envelopes.

Still no sign of them in 1881.

The birth certs I have are for 1858/59 as his age was given as 2yrs in 1861 census ( taken in April) and his sister was given as being 2 months old, so I don't think he would have been born in 1860 ... unless of course he wasn't Hannah's child after all !!!

I have several certs in that name (all wrong ones) but there are no reference numbers on them so can't be sure if the ones you mentioned are among them.
I will have to look at them again.

Michael,

You say you've been unable to find his birth cert. Does this mean you've ruled these out I mentioned earlier?

Births Mar 1860
Fisher William Colchester 4a 257
Fisher William Colchester 4a 264

Rose

This may well make sense Sylvia as it seems Mrs Goody had little time for legalities.
In 1881, not being divorced or widowed, she married Thomas Cronnall in Preston, giving her name as Hannah Fisher (her maiden name) and declaring herself as a spinster...

There is one factor to be considered

Although registration of bmds began on July 1 1837, many births are not in fact registered.


The law said that a minister had to send to the local Registrar all records of marriages and deaths from the church. This was usually done at about 3 monthly intervals, depending on the number of events.

Births were different. It was the responsibility of the Registrar to find out that a birth had occurred, then for him to visit the home and record all the details from the mother.

Imagine the difficulty of this.


Partly because of the large number of births that were not recorded, this was changed about 1875 or so

The new law stated that it was the responsibility of the mother to go to the Registrar and record the birth of an infant within 6 weeks of the birth. There was a fine as penalty if she did not do so.


There are still births which were not recorded, but far fewer than in the period between 1837 and 1875.


Add to the non-recorded births is also the fact that records sometimes did not make it from the local Registry Office to the General Registry Office ..... so there are bmds missing because of that.



sylvia

Yes I acquired the 1861 fiche for Colchester so found him living with his parents and baby sister. I have most of his life covered but just cannot find a birth cert or record of a christening.
As he was born before his parents married, I can't be sure who his father was although he has the same name. I wonder if he was re-named William after his parents married ?

Well, he's age 2 in 1861:

1861 England Census
about William Goody
Name: William Goody
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Colchester, Essex, England

Civil parish: Colchester St Giles
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Colchester
Sub-registration district: Colchester First Ward
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 194
Household Members: Name Age
William Goody 21
Hannah Goody 19
William Goody 2
Mary I Goody 2 Mo

Thanks Lindsey.
Yes I have his Dec. 1878 marriage certificate under the name of Goodey, though transcribed in the index as Goady. His age is stated as 19 which would mean he was born in 1859, 2 years before his parents marriage, as Rose points out. However, as his wife Catherine Tommony states her age as 18 whereas she was in fact only 15 ( I have her birth cert 1863) it could be that they both exaggerated their ages when marrying.
I have several certs in the name of William Fisher but none have Hannah as his mother.
Yes Sylvia, that's him in 1891. It's the only census which has his birth as Preston. All the others (except for 1881 when there is no trace of him at all) have Colchester Essex as his birth place.
I have even been down to Chelmsford which holds Essex records to check for a christening but drew a blank.