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Blimey FBG, don't know how you do it, my head hurts just thinking about it. Having a break now but will get back to researching later tonight, good luck with the Davies Davies problem.
Ruth

Yes,but I keep the Asprins to hand !

Jones in Lancs/Chesh are better than Cards or Carms though !

Still trying to break down a wall on a Davies family for someone.
At last we have a birth cert for a child,Mother Mary Davies,formerly DAVIES.
So Mary Davies marries John Davies on the Carms/Cards border ,an Older daughter in the house,whose is she then ?,no birth found for her as yet.
And 2 reg offices to be talked into searching for a marriage,as they could have married either side of the border !

You're right FBG, thanks.
I do think that Ellen Jones in 1891 is his mother, and with finding a death for Ellen in 1895, it could be possible that the William Bailey snr could be the father of her children Arthur etc, OR as you thought previously that Arthur just took the name of William Bailey for his marriage cert, however it doesn't explain why the Jones children would be staying with the Baileys in 1901 unless he was the father and they went to stay after Ellen their mother died. Would mean William Bailey snr had a relatonship outside of his marriage.
It will help when I get Arthur's birth cert, I've asked the register office to check the three possible births for a match with Ellen, hope they'll do it.
Does your head not hurt thinking about all this info trying to work it out, I've notes everywhere. Might grab a coffee x

BAILEY, William C Son Married M 29 1872 Pork Butcher
JONES, Arthur Boarder Single M 15 1886 Piecer For Cotton


He would have been about 14 when Arthur was born,I dont think he is his natural father my self...

Trees on here for Arthur Jones and mary ellen jones born Dukenfield owner is peter Stocks maybe he will have more info.

William Bailey 1851 Rushton tree owner Harold Bayley and Steve Clayton.

The only William Bailey I can find in 1881 born Rushton,he is a lodger in Duckenfield but a coal miner says he is a widow.

Can't find William Charles or siblings in 1881,as yet.

If Ellen was unmarried with four small children life must have been hard.

Maryb
Edit found the Bailey family 1881.

William Bayley pork butcher

Hannah and all children
West Macclesfield district 5 image 13

Could Ellen Jones from 1891 census, who was single with her three sons, have died prior to 1901 and the Jones children then gone to live with their father who could have been William C Bailey who is in 1901 shown as married but with no wife at the address? Does that make sense?

EDIT: Found an Ellen Jones age 35 died Sept 1895 Ashton 8d 381. That matches her age in the 1891 census, so perhaps one of the William Bailey,s from 1901 are Arthur's father, not sure where to go from here now, what do you think?
Thanks again
Ruth

1871 Charles Bailey 1823 rushton
Elizabeth 1832 nee Chapell.
William 1851 Rushton Pork Butcher
Ann Rebecca 18
Edwin 6
Arthur 4
Lucy 6months
Now in West Macclesfield district 5 image 16

I was wondering if William could have married a Hannah Jones,but can't find anything as yet.

Maryb

Thanks Mary

I think that my Arthur Jones boarded with the Bailey family in 1901 as FBG found, and Arthur took his name (adding Jones at the end) for his marriage cert, which is why the Jones' aren't on the 1891. I think x

I am going to get Arthur's birth cert (which is one of a possible three) to find out if he has a father registered, which does seem unlikely as in 1891 he was living with his mother who was single, Ellen Jones, presuming that's her maiden name.

I then need to try and find Ellen in 1881 and also her death, that should take me another two months ;o)

Ruth

1891 census for william Bailey

Heaton Norris Stockport.
William 1852 born Rushton Staffs Lard refiner
hannah 1849 Macclesfield Cheshire
William Charles 18 Macclesfield
Annie E 16
Alice 13
Thomas E 11
Florence 6
Joseph 8 all born macclesfield .

All are the same people as on 1901 census.

Maryb

All the children from the 1891 census?

Births Jun 1890
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones George Henry Ashton 8d 529

Births Sep 1889
-------------------------------------------------
Jones Mary Elizabeth Ashton 8d _13

2 possibles for John w

Births Sep 1886
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones John William Ashton 8d 568

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1888
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JONES John William Ashton 8d 495


And 4 possibles for Arthur.

Births Mar 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Arthur Ashton 8d 525

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Arthur Ashton 8d 542

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Arthur Ashton 8d 427

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1886
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JONES Arthur Ashton 8d 466


I think if it were me I would send for George Henrys (Harry?)to see what it said..


Off to bed,,,night.

FBG, Free, Maureen, mary, Chccy, THANK YOU. You've found more info that I have done since flipping christmas, perhaps I should take up knitting.

FBG, yes I have to say I think then you're right taking into account the 1891 info, I need to find Arthurs birth and get a cert, at least then it should tally in with Ellen as his mum. Therefore Jones is her maiden name presumably and not a married name.

Don't know where a Mary E comes into this, my aunts never mentioned her. However, funny thing is Arthur Jones married a lady called Mary Esther Harrison who was a couple of years his junior.
Geting weird now.

The info on Edith andJohn is correct too I think as I do have they they lived in waterloo Ashton.

It's all very interesting, thanks for sharing, and if you do come up with anything else then please please let me know.
Ruth x

It happened all the time that people put fathers names down that werent their real fathers.
And it is too much of a coincidence for William Bailey to be a pork butcher and be on his marriage.
Just stick Jones on the end and it looks like he is his father and makes Arthur look "respectable"having a father.

My own,illegitimate, nan did it in 1939 !
Fathers name she did know as he died when she was 5 and she had lived with him and her mother.but her mother and father were married to other people ,but had left them .
She put his christian names and occupation correct,but put her birth surname as his surname when she knew full well his surname was different.
But she looked respectable to Grandads family by not admitting to no father on her birth cert and with him being dead who would know except her mum and she wasnt telling !.

The 1891 census of Ellen and the boys with sister Mary e makes it seem that you will find no father on your grandfathers birth cert.

FBG, please see previous post, thanks.
Looking at the 1901 info you have found, there are 2 William Baileys, the person on Arthurs marriage cert could be either of them, and I notice that William C is married but with no wife, could the Jones' be from a previous marriage? no scrub that, they're younger than the other children.
I would definitely say that is then though, well done.
Ruth x

These are the only 2 for 1911

www.findmypast.co.uk

www.1911census.co.uk


What do you think of the Bailey / jones 1901 census?.

Hi, this is the info from Arthur's marriage cert, he was a spinner, but later worked in a brewery.

MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE 1910: age 25, Spinner; 10 Marlboro Grove, Droylsden; Arthur's father = William Bailey Jones, pork butcher; witnesses Ellis Clough, Florence Winterbottom.

FBG that's very interesting, could it be then that Arthur in 1901 living with the Bailey family was thought of as a family member and therefore named on his marriage cert? did that sort of thing happen do you think?
My aunts, Arthurs daughters, never mentioned anything like this but they did say that Arthur didn't speak much of his family and that they had died before they were born in 1920/1925.

THANKS X

Ruth x

Thank you very much to everyone who has replied, and so fast too. Could anyone recommend a site that I could subscribe to to get this information from 1911?
Thanks again, Ruth

???
1901
All born Ashton Under Lyne on image.

BAILEY, William Head Married M 49 1852 Pork Butcher

BAILEY, Hannah Wife Married F 52 1849

BAILEY, William C Son Married M 29 1872 Pork Butcher

BAILEY, Alice Daughter Single F 23 1878 Housemaid

BAILEY, Thomas C Son Single M 21 1880 Pork Butcher

BAILEY, Jos Son Single M 18 1883 Carter On Farm

BAILEY, Florence Daughter Single F 16 1885 Dairymaid

JONES, Arthur Boarder Single M 15 1886 Piecer For Cotton

JONES, John Boarder Single M 14 1887 Piecer For Cotton

JONES, Harry Boarder M 12 1889 <<George H on 1891 ?


Civil Parish:
Little Moss Municipal Borough:
Address:
Boodle Fold Farm, Little Moss, Littlemoss County:
Lancashire


Did Arthur make William Bailey into his father for his marriage cert?Or is he his father ?

And was it George H Jones (Harry)that married Edith Lomas.
Unfotunately the brides christian name is missing from the page.

Marriages Jun 1916
Jones George H Lomas Wolstanton 6b 196

But Ancestry have it ,so no its not the right name.

Name: Florence Lomas
Spouse Surname: Jones
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1916
Registration district: Wolstanton
Registration county (inferred): Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 196

1911 John W 1888 at father in laws
Robert John Lomas

Edith 1881 married 2 years
John william 1911
153 Oldham Rd
Waterloo
Ashon U Lyne.

Maryb

1891 271 birch Lane Duckenfield d11 image 14
Ellen Jones head says single age 32
Arthur son 5
John W 4
Marye 2
George H 1

Maryb

Too late again

there's this -



1891 England Census
Name: Arthur Jones
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James W
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Dukinfield, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Dukinfield
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Dukinfield
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Dukinfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James W Howcroft 34 - he lives next door but has been included with the Jones family
Ann Howcroft 36 - she lives next door !

Ellen Jones 31 - Ellen is single and Head of the family
Arthur Jones 5
John W Jones 4
Mary E Jones 2
George H Jones 1




Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3289; Folio 114; Page 14; GSU roll: 6098399.