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Hello, going potty and crosseyed here....

This is probably a long shot with Jones being such a 'popular' surname, however I can't find anyone anywhere with the name of my Gt Grandfather WILLIAM BAILEY JONES, nor find the birth of his son, my Grandfather, ARTHUR JONES, born c1885.

I have Arthur Jones' marriage cert to Mary Esther Harrison in1910, Droylsden, Lancs, which is where I found his father's name William Bailey Jones (Pork Butcher), but I don't know whether the Bailey bit is a double barrelled name taken at marriage OR his middle name.
I'm sure this is as clear as mud.

I have been told that William Bailey Jones also had two other children, Harry Jones (who apparently died 'young'), and John William Jones (known as Jack) who went on to marry a lady called Edith Lomas. I can't find any of this info that matches what I already have.

To make things worse, a relative of mine seems to think that William Bailey Jones and possibly his sons, were born in N Wales, possibly Denbighshire, but they're not sure.

I don't even think you knowledgeable lot will be able to help me with this one but I do appreciate any help at all anyone can offer me, I've only just started looking for this blood line and am stuck already.

Thanks in advance to all x
Ruth

If you look for Arthur and his wife on 1911 census, you will find out where he says he was born.

What was his occupation?

This one?
1911 census transcription details for: 127 Moorside St Droylsden

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN24376 RG78PN1397 RD468 SD4 ED10 SN151


Reg. District: Ashton Under Lyne Sub District: Audenshaw
Parish: Droylsden Enum. District: 10
Address: 127 Moorside St Droylsden
County: Lancashire
JONES, Arthur Head Married M 26 1885 Cotton Spinner Dukinfield Cheshire
JONES, Mary Esther Wife Married F 22 1889 Cop Reeler Lancs Droylsden


Maureen

1911 Arthur 1885 Cotton spinner born Dukinfield Cheshire
Mary Esther 1889 Droylsden Lancs
address
127 Moorside
Droylsden.

Maryb

Pipped to the post,note to self must try harder.

Possible birth from Cheshire BMD

Arthur Jones 1885 ref: DUK/103/41

Annx

there's this -



1891 England Census
Name: Arthur Jones
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James W
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Dukinfield, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Dukinfield
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Dukinfield
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Dukinfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James W Howcroft 34 - he lives next door but has been included with the Jones family
Ann Howcroft 36 - she lives next door !

Ellen Jones 31 - Ellen is single and Head of the family
Arthur Jones 5
John W Jones 4
Mary E Jones 2
George H Jones 1




Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3289; Folio 114; Page 14; GSU roll: 6098399.

1891 271 birch Lane Duckenfield d11 image 14
Ellen Jones head says single age 32
Arthur son 5
John W 4
Marye 2
George H 1

Maryb

Too late again

1911 John W 1888 at father in laws
Robert John Lomas

Edith 1881 married 2 years
John william 1911
153 Oldham Rd
Waterloo
Ashon U Lyne.

Maryb

???
1901
All born Ashton Under Lyne on image.

BAILEY, William Head Married M 49 1852 Pork Butcher

BAILEY, Hannah Wife Married F 52 1849

BAILEY, William C Son Married M 29 1872 Pork Butcher

BAILEY, Alice Daughter Single F 23 1878 Housemaid

BAILEY, Thomas C Son Single M 21 1880 Pork Butcher

BAILEY, Jos Son Single M 18 1883 Carter On Farm

BAILEY, Florence Daughter Single F 16 1885 Dairymaid

JONES, Arthur Boarder Single M 15 1886 Piecer For Cotton

JONES, John Boarder Single M 14 1887 Piecer For Cotton

JONES, Harry Boarder M 12 1889 <<George H on 1891 ?


Civil Parish:
Little Moss Municipal Borough:
Address:
Boodle Fold Farm, Little Moss, Littlemoss County:
Lancashire


Did Arthur make William Bailey into his father for his marriage cert?Or is he his father ?

And was it George H Jones (Harry)that married Edith Lomas.
Unfotunately the brides christian name is missing from the page.

Marriages Jun 1916
Jones George H Lomas Wolstanton 6b 196

But Ancestry have it ,so no its not the right name.

Name: Florence Lomas
Spouse Surname: Jones
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1916
Registration district: Wolstanton
Registration county (inferred): Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 196

Thank you very much to everyone who has replied, and so fast too. Could anyone recommend a site that I could subscribe to to get this information from 1911?
Thanks again, Ruth

Hi, this is the info from Arthur's marriage cert, he was a spinner, but later worked in a brewery.

MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE 1910: age 25, Spinner; 10 Marlboro Grove, Droylsden; Arthur's father = William Bailey Jones, pork butcher; witnesses Ellis Clough, Florence Winterbottom.

FBG that's very interesting, could it be then that Arthur in 1901 living with the Bailey family was thought of as a family member and therefore named on his marriage cert? did that sort of thing happen do you think?
My aunts, Arthurs daughters, never mentioned anything like this but they did say that Arthur didn't speak much of his family and that they had died before they were born in 1920/1925.

THANKS X

Ruth x

These are the only 2 for 1911

www.findmypast.co.uk

www.1911census.co.uk


What do you think of the Bailey / jones 1901 census?.

FBG, please see previous post, thanks.
Looking at the 1901 info you have found, there are 2 William Baileys, the person on Arthurs marriage cert could be either of them, and I notice that William C is married but with no wife, could the Jones' be from a previous marriage? no scrub that, they're younger than the other children.
I would definitely say that is then though, well done.
Ruth x

It happened all the time that people put fathers names down that werent their real fathers.
And it is too much of a coincidence for William Bailey to be a pork butcher and be on his marriage.
Just stick Jones on the end and it looks like he is his father and makes Arthur look "respectable"having a father.

My own,illegitimate, nan did it in 1939 !
Fathers name she did know as he died when she was 5 and she had lived with him and her mother.but her mother and father were married to other people ,but had left them .
She put his christian names and occupation correct,but put her birth surname as his surname when she knew full well his surname was different.
But she looked respectable to Grandads family by not admitting to no father on her birth cert and with him being dead who would know except her mum and she wasnt telling !.

The 1891 census of Ellen and the boys with sister Mary e makes it seem that you will find no father on your grandfathers birth cert.

FBG, Free, Maureen, mary, Chccy, THANK YOU. You've found more info that I have done since flipping christmas, perhaps I should take up knitting.

FBG, yes I have to say I think then you're right taking into account the 1891 info, I need to find Arthurs birth and get a cert, at least then it should tally in with Ellen as his mum. Therefore Jones is her maiden name presumably and not a married name.

Don't know where a Mary E comes into this, my aunts never mentioned her. However, funny thing is Arthur Jones married a lady called Mary Esther Harrison who was a couple of years his junior.
Geting weird now.

The info on Edith andJohn is correct too I think as I do have they they lived in waterloo Ashton.

It's all very interesting, thanks for sharing, and if you do come up with anything else then please please let me know.
Ruth x

All the children from the 1891 census?

Births Jun 1890
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones George Henry Ashton 8d 529

Births Sep 1889
-------------------------------------------------
Jones Mary Elizabeth Ashton 8d _13

2 possibles for John w

Births Sep 1886
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones John William Ashton 8d 568

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1888
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JONES John William Ashton 8d 495


And 4 possibles for Arthur.

Births Mar 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Arthur Ashton 8d 525

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Arthur Ashton 8d 542

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1885
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Arthur Ashton 8d 427

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1886
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JONES Arthur Ashton 8d 466


I think if it were me I would send for George Henrys (Harry?)to see what it said..


Off to bed,,,night.

1891 census for william Bailey

Heaton Norris Stockport.
William 1852 born Rushton Staffs Lard refiner
hannah 1849 Macclesfield Cheshire
William Charles 18 Macclesfield
Annie E 16
Alice 13
Thomas E 11
Florence 6
Joseph 8 all born macclesfield .

All are the same people as on 1901 census.

Maryb

Thanks Mary

I think that my Arthur Jones boarded with the Bailey family in 1901 as FBG found, and Arthur took his name (adding Jones at the end) for his marriage cert, which is why the Jones' aren't on the 1891. I think x

I am going to get Arthur's birth cert (which is one of a possible three) to find out if he has a father registered, which does seem unlikely as in 1891 he was living with his mother who was single, Ellen Jones, presuming that's her maiden name.

I then need to try and find Ellen in 1881 and also her death, that should take me another two months ;o)

Ruth

1871 Charles Bailey 1823 rushton
Elizabeth 1832 nee Chapell.
William 1851 Rushton Pork Butcher
Ann Rebecca 18
Edwin 6
Arthur 4
Lucy 6months
Now in West Macclesfield district 5 image 16

I was wondering if William could have married a Hannah Jones,but can't find anything as yet.

Maryb

Could Ellen Jones from 1891 census, who was single with her three sons, have died prior to 1901 and the Jones children then gone to live with their father who could have been William C Bailey who is in 1901 shown as married but with no wife at the address? Does that make sense?

EDIT: Found an Ellen Jones age 35 died Sept 1895 Ashton 8d 381. That matches her age in the 1891 census, so perhaps one of the William Bailey,s from 1901 are Arthur's father, not sure where to go from here now, what do you think?
Thanks again
Ruth