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Hey Thanks maryB
reading my request sounds more confusing than what it really is! Im sure you are on the same level as me as i guessed Dorothy & Albert were related.. also i notice that Dorothy b and Mable F are Twins,.. i can remember being told there were twins on grandads side of the family.. seems about right, Dorothy went on to marry James Denyer, Albert married his Sister Frances H Denyer ..... i will look at the tree you mentioned as well ... still need to find Fred & Cecil
thanks MaryB for helping me out ,
Caz

1901 East Batersea London.District 14 image 33
Martha age 37 married char woman.
Dorothy B 10
Mable F 10
Frederick C 8
Ablert Deaton 5 look at original and it says Albert Victor.born Battersea

1891 It doesn't say Dorothy beatrice servant and lodger it says daughter the lodger it says was Ada Bollon.

Say I would say yes Dorothy and Herbert /Albert are brother and sister.
Herbert Victor howard J/F/M 1896 registered Fulham greater London V1a Page 194.
Maryb

P.S a tree on Ancestry has 8 children to Thomas Howard 1813 and Anne Martha 1822-1880 nee Clements

Hi Minnie Thanks for your reply, sorry i get a bit confused with this branch of tree
this is what i know: My Grandfather born Herbert Victor Howard on 15th Nov 1985 place unknown,Possibly Bermondsey Surrey he later changed his name too Albert Victor Howard as this is on his marriage cert he married Frances H Denyer in Sept 1917 at st Andrews Parish Church Clewer Windsor Berkshire.... His Fathers Name on Cert is Frederick Charles Howard Occupation Butcher, Res Colchester Essex .. Im looking for Alberts Place of Birth & Both his Parents The half brother i just dont know a thing about i got told this recently ,
thanks
Caz {in Australia}

Slow down. Lets start with what you know for certain.

He married - where & when & To whom?
How old was he?
What was his fathers name and occupation?
answer :Frederick Charles Howard occupation Butcher residence Colchester Essex
=======================================

This half brother Cecil that changed his name to Albert.

What sort of half? Fathers child or mothers?

Hi could someone please help me to work this puzzle out ? My late grandfather born Herbert Victor Howard {15/11/1895} cannot be found anywhere in the Births, have his Marriage cert ,also his death is regd.. now because I dont Know where he was born in uk {had suggestions of Bermondsey/Battersea } I have taken his fathers name from the Marriage cert Frederick Charles Howard occupation Butcher residence Colchester Essex , & tried to find Herbert on1901 uk Census's, No luck , found out Herbert had a brother Fred, Half Brother Cecil... Herbert changed his name to Albert at some point before getting married in Sept 1917, Think this is his father Frederick who appears on the 1891 Census :
Frederick Howard {head} 29 Butcher.. Born Henley Oxford 1862..
Martha wife 26 1865 St Johns wood London
Martha Ellen 3 1888 Battersea surrey
Mable Florence 3/12 1891 Battersea Surrey
Dorothy Beatrice 3/12 1891 Battersea Surrey
{+servant + Lodger}

Frederick is also on the 1871 census aged 9
parents Thomas 1811 age 60
Ann 1822 Age 49
all 4 children born in Henley between 1859 1870

This is the hard part that does my head in .. Dorothy beatrice 1891 .. married James Denyer.. My Grandad married James's sister Frances H Denyer..{Clewer Windsor Berks}.. Is Dorothys Dad Frederick also my Grandads Dad ? it could be as the Name & occupation are the same as that on the marriage cert & Herbert would be on the 1911 Census, & i dont have Access to this can anyone please help me here with 1911 look up ? & anything else that may help here please
thanks Caz