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Thanks to everyone who helped with the search for Phoebe Williams nee Owen. I have got a little further forward but need more help! I have discovered the two missing childen!

To refresh: Phoebe is in a lodging house in Bethnal Green - says she has 7 children, 5 living and 2 died. I know of 5 children, 1 who died. I couldn't find any of them in 1911 but may have found Louisa Williams in the workhouse- thanks to you.

The missing children are GEORGE ROBERT WILLIAMS born 1901 and ERNEST WLLIAM WILLIAMS born 1903 - baptised in 1904 at St Stephen's Haggerstone - I pressume births were Bethnal Green. I've found George Robert but not Ernest. I think one of these died but don't know which one (can't find death record either!) and would like to find the one who survived in 1911 - as that might give me more clues!

I know it's a long shot - but you people are GOOD!

Gai

Thanks Sara - right age - and Pheobe's father and one of her brothers was a glass blower so that would make sense. Do you know if the Infirmary is a hospital or another type of workhouse?

G

Sara - I didn't pick up the children in the 1911 for Phoebe. I seem to be missing two children and one who died (if we count Minnie who died in 1891. How do I find these on free bmd - mothers maiden not in index until 1912 I think?? Any ideas??

Gai

Freewheel - clever tip about using the occupation from a previous census - I didn't think of that - but then I guess that's why I'm doing the asking and you have the answers!!!

Thanks!

Thanks, Viv - hadn't got round to cross-checking

Oh - I was refering to the one married to Elizabeth. missed the post of the younger Jospeh - I can discount that one - thanks!

Gai

Thanks both

Not sure that's the right Joseph - but age is right and Rose is a family name - he has a younger sister called Rose (also a sister Louisa and a brother Alfred) But Phoebe is listed in the lodging house as being married 19 years.

And his youngest daughter in the workhouse! What a B**d!

WILLIAMS JOSEPH M 1896 15 Bethnal Green London

Not him Fran,he is with parents John and Florence

Says married 5 years.

WILLIAMS, Joseph Head Married M 41 1870 Export Packing Case Maker London Bethnal Green
WILLIAMS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 36 1875 Middlesex Edmonton
WILLIAMS, Joseph Son Married M 3 1908 Middlesex Edmonton
WILLIAMS, Rose Daughter F 0 (9 MONTHS) 1911 London Whitechapel

WILLIAMS JOSEPH M 1896 15 Bethnal Green London

I use this site.............

http://www.1911census.co.uk/

...............and using the advanced search options, specified his occupation

Address:
Bethnal green workhuse
Leytonstone N E

WILLIAMS, Louisa Inmate F 11 1900 Schoolgirl London Bethnal Green .

On her own there,all girls school

Freewheel - which free search are you using? The occupation doesn't show up on the 1911 at findmypast - it does make it a little easier to narrow down.

Any luck with Phoebe or Joseph junior - or Arthur ??

Gai

Well, you are doing better than I did! OK. I may have to buy some more credits - narrowing it down is the key is guess! If the ones you have found already are right, it would seem a pretty sad end to this family.

G

Sorry, Gai, I'm only using the free search.

But, as far as I can determine, Joseph is not with any other family members

Sorry - yes, all children born in Bethnal Green. The Owen and the Williams moved around a bit over the years but all in the Bethnal Green area.

Gai

That must be Joseph Senior - he's a packing case maker on his marriage certificate? Do you have the address? Is there anyone else with him?

The Louisa is a possiblity too - perhaps the family were all split up?

Gai

Born in Bethnal Green - occupation Packing Case Maker (as in 1901)

WILLIAMS JOSEPH M 1870 41 St Olave (Bermondsey) London

This one was born in Bethnal Green

INSTITUTION WILLIAMS LOUISA F 1900 11 West Ham Essex

Were they all born in Bethnal Green?