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hi i am trying to find the first marriage of william james shaw born in 1835 in bermondsey london. on his marriage cert it says he is a widower age 57. in 1893 he married his neice louisa sarah lines in lambeth. i have searched records but can find no record of his first marriage thankyou

If she really was his niece, the marriage would not have been legal.

Have you found him on 1881 census? Does he have a wife on there?

What was his occupation?

What was his father's name? And occupation?

Marriages Sep 1859 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Bedford 3b 498

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Marriages Jun 1862 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Uxbridge 3a 29

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Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
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SHAW William James Kirkstall 9b 374

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Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
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SHAW William James St. James 1a 755

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Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
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SHAW William James Manchester 8d 226

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Marriages Mar 1874 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Manchester 8d 208

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Marriages Dec 1874 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Dudley 6c 43

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Marriages Jun 1875 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Salford 8d 134

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Marriages Sep 1875 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Manchester 8d 548

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Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)
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Shaw William James St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 736

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Marriages Sep 1876 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Sheffield 9c 538
Shaw William James Holborn 1b 1043

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Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
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Shaw William James Bethnal Green 1c 704

1901 FOR REFERENCE
William Shaw
Age: 66
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil parish: Staines
Ecclesiastical parish: Staines St Mary
Town: Staines
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Staines
Sub-registration district: Staines
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members: Name Age
William Shaw 66
Louisa Shaw 27
Mabel Shaw 8
Marry Shaw 5
Florence Shaw 2


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1901 census for info ONLY

Name: William Shaw
Age: 66
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil parish: Staines
Ecclesiastical parish: Staines St Mary
Town: Staines
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Staines
Sub-registration district: Staines
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members: Name Age
William Shaw 66 Umbrella Maker
Louisa Shaw 27
Mabel Shaw 8
Marry Shaw 5
Florence Shaw 2

Well, according to 1881, he wasn't born in Bermondsey

Name: William J. Shaw
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: Staines
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: London Road
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Umbrella Maker

Registration district: Staines
Sub-registration district: Staines
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William J. Shaw 46
Sarah Ann Shaw 47 b. Steeple Claydon, Bucks
William J. Shaw 19 b. Watlington, Oxon


Same address as 1901

William J. Shaw
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1835 UMBRELLA MAKER
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Oxfordshire, England

Civil parish: Staines
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: London Road
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Umbrella Maker

Registration district: Staines
Sub-registration district: Staines
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William J. Shaw 46
Sarah Ann Shaw 47
William J. Shaw 19

i THINK THIS IS THE SAME ONE?

WELL 2 CAN'T BE WRONG

Marriages Sep 1876 (>99%)
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Andrews Sarah Ann Holborn 1b 1043
Elliot Eliza Holborn 1b 1043
Shaw William James Holborn 1b 1043
Turpin George Frederick Holborn 1b 1043

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Deaths Jun 1887 (>99%)
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Shaw Sarah Ann 54 Staines 3a 8

Name: William James Shaw
FOR REF
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Spouse Name: Louisa Sarah Lines
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 Mar 1893
Parish: Saint Mary At Lambeth
County: Middlesex
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: James Shaw
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Lines

Groom has different father/Tin plate worker

Name: William James Shaw
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Spouse Name: Eliza Elliot
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Sep 1876
Parish: Saint James, Clerkenwell
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: >>>>>>Joseph Shaw
Spouse Father Name: William Elliot

hi everyone many thanks for your help the sarah anne marriage looks promising i will follow that up. louisa was his niece who was lodging with him in staines this is very sad because it means my grandad and his sisters were in fact illagitamet would they not have been found out though by the church anyway thankyou for your help much appreciated

A stab in the dark at 1841 - NOT born in Surrey - but perhaps this is the Bermondsey connection

Name: William Shaw
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Gender: Male

Civil parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: St Mary Magdalen
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Shaw 35
William Shaw 6
Catharine Marks 24
Hannah Wiffen 22

You state that Louisa was his niece - how does the link arise?

hi freewheel this looks good i will recheck about the niece and get backto you thankyou julie

hi freewheel this looks good i will recheck about the niece and get backto you thankyou julie

Louisa?

Births Mar 1874 (>99%)
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LINES Louisa Sarah Lambeth 1d 412

1891

Name: Louisa Lines
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, London, England

Civil parish: Staines
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Staines
Sub-registration district: Staines
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Show 56
Louisa Lines 17
Ada Lines 3<<<<<<<<<<<Niece, b Lambeth

Ada in 1901?

Name: Ada A Lines
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Ann E
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth

Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary the Less
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 384
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Lines 54
Ann E Lines 53
Ann E Lines 23
William T Lines 18
Ada A Lines 13
Ellen F Lines 10

Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
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LIN__ Ada Alice Lambeth 1d 41_

If Louisa was a niece by marriage, it would have been OK for them to marry - only a blood niece would be a problem.

Also, the term 'niece' on the 1891 may have been a matter of convenience - a courtesy title.........

1891 for what MAY be Ada's family

Name: Ann E Lines
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Ann E
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, London, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary the Less
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Lines 45 born Steeple Claydon, Bucks<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ann E Lines 43
Ann E Lines 14
Lily A Lines 11
William T Lines 8
Ellen F Lines 8 months


If this is also Louisa's family, it would appear that the connection is between William's wife Sarah and Louisa's father .- so may be quite distant