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You wrote; How will i find out what his surname was before he changed to simpson,and where i could trace any relatives?


Answer; You cant. Not without communicating with us!

Ginny
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In 1871 John and Eliza both b 1843 Mile End are with Elizabeth b 1870 Mile end
In 1881 John and Eliza arein 17 Devonshire St Mile End and have addl children Emily 1874, Emmy 1878 and Florence 1880 plus a Charlotte Lampurey niece b Stepney 1866
In 1891 John and Eliza both 47 are with Elizabeth 21, Emily 17, Emma 13 and Clara 5
I found a marriage John Simpson to Elizabeth Mayou in 1866 Bethnal Green but assuming this should be Mayhew that Eliza is still single in 1871 daughter of Barrillai? a tailor in Mile End

Gillian's right there is no mention of a second marriage. So, for you to say this, does it mean you have more info than you have let on?

If you want help hun, you're going to have to talk to us..on this thread so we can all see the bigger picture

You havent mentioned the marriage/census info that me and 'Satnav' posted which was your original question?

We want to help you but we need your help too as we know nothing about your family, we're not related in any way

Ginny
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Where does anybody say the marriage to John was Eliza/s second marriage?This is the first we have seen on this thread of John and Eliza at all!
Is Eliza's maiden name known -might Thomas have been reg under that?

Simpson Family update
Eliza Simpson b.1843(abt) married to John Simpson
1871 census living with daughter elizabeth aged 1 in mile end middx.
Thomas must have been her half brother if you say this was eliza's 2nd marriage,so need to find out where he was at this time.John & Eliza went on to have Emily,Emma,Florence and Clara.Elizabeth went on to marry arthur buckland.My mother remembers Tom vaguely,she was about 11 yrs old and he was in hammersmith hospital,this is all we know,my gt,grandmother elizabeth didnt mention he was a half brother,my gt aunt used to visit his children we think somewhere in devon.How will i find out what his surname was before he changed to simpson,and where i could trace any relatives?
Di

Have tried in vain to find an Elizabeth Sampson reg c1869 Kensington (tho there is an Elizabeth Hannah 1868 Dec Q) or in earlier censuses born Hammersmith)
I do feel that Diane must have some more info we are not privy to, that led her to say Thomas and Elizabeth are siblings. -she obviously has their marriage certs which would give addresses and witnesses -details of these would help.
But until she comes back I wont look any further

Yep.
Doing my evening browse I noticed Diane hadn't replied. So that she didn't miss the info, I sent her my usual how to find your threads message.

Looking back I also sent one on 2.12. They have both been acknowledged so goodness knows why she doesn't come back and respond.

Hi Gillian

That’s the census info I sent you earlier by PM as I didn’t want to post it, to avoid confusion as I don’t think Arthur or Elizabeth 'Sampson' has anything to do with this family.

Diane has two people..Thomas and Elizabeth with two different fathers, so they are not the same family surely

Am I going 'nuts' here hun?

Diane, will you please respond on here?

Ginny
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Edit; Oh, I just realised that you haven’t responded to your 'Mumford' request for help either despite help from Cynthia and Gillian on how to do so...of which I tried to help

Now found Arthur
1901Paddington 19 North Wharf Rd
Arthur William Buckland 38 Carman Building Contractors b Twyford Berks
Elizabeth 32 wife b Hammersmith
Rose Eileen 8
Lilian 4
Ethel 2
Violet 2mths
So it looks as if Elizabeth was second wife

Probable birth for Elizabeth Simpson 1869 Sep Q Kensington 1a 187 (the reg dist for Hammersmith was then Kensington)

Thanks Gillian for letting me know, at least someone is in the 'loop'

Diane, can you reply on here to the info that took 'yonks' to work out

I'll leave it with you until you can give us some answers

Ginny

Diane has sent me a pm (have told her about the purple button) saying that on Thomas's marriage cert father shown as Thomas and on Elizabeths father shown as John.Have explained the various reasons why this might have occurred and askedher for date and place of Elizabeths birth
If father is John there is a possible 1871 Hammersmith entry for John and Mary Simpson both 29 with ch Henry 7, John 6, and Thomas 5 all born Hammersmith BUT no Elizabeth
No time to do more now

No luck with another Arthur Buckland marriage -cant even find him 1901!

Hi Gillian

I'm wondering if Diane has gone on the GRO transcription too, as anyone would really, I was just lucky to have seen the banns

I thought at first there were two marriages with the same names!

Diane, if you can get back to us I'm sure Gillian, I and others can help

Ginny
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Thanks Ginny for the full details -It was the fact that the poster had Arthur Buckland as the groom that made me think this was the right marriage -that and the fact it was in Paddington as also mentioned by her -but I will take another look for Arthur and see if I can find him with an Elizabeth Simpson elsewhere

Gillian, look at this for a coincidence! Or maybe it’s not. This is just the Banns record and the marriage took place April 18th (A note on the Banns by the minister)

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Arthur Buckland
Name: Arthur Buckland
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Sampson >>>>>>
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 29 Mar 1896 >>this is the 3rd Sunday of the reading
Parish: Saint Mary, Paddington Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster

The original GRO record that you refer to has been transcribed (from the church record) as 'Simpson' but having looked at the Banns document it clearly says 'Sampson'

They are undoubtedly one and the same couple and I suspect the GRO transcription got it wrong....OR the minister heard it wrong and wrote 'Sampson' when it should have been 'Simpson'

There are several possible marriages for an Elizabeth Simpson in the same area that her brother married so my instincts go with the first suspicion that the GRO got it wrong and the 'Sampson' lady is not of this family

...................................................

Marriages Sep 1872 (>99%)
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Simpson Elizabeth Kensington 1a 79

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Marriages Sep 1874 (>99%)
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Simpson Elizabeth Jane Kensington 1a 15

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Marriages Jun 1880 (>99%)
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Simpson Elizabeth Mary Kensington 1a 274

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Marriages Mar 1888 (99%)
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SIMPSON Elizabeth Kensington 1a 139



As ever, only the certificate will tell! Oh the joys of research.........

Ginny
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PS Diane, what documentation do you have regarding the above?

Not on Ancestry it doesnt -it reads Simpson -just checked again

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Thomas William Simpson of 13 Laweaston mews kensington
Name: Thomas William Simpson >>>>Occ; cab proprietor
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Laura Elizabeth Sealley of 23 All Saints Road
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Apr 1891
Parish: All Saints, Notting Hill
County: Middlesex
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: Thomas William Simpson >>Ominbus conductor; Deceased

Brides father; Robert Sealley Occ; Fishmonger

Wittnesses;

Robert Sealley
Jane Sealley
Maud Mary Sealley

The marriage that Gillian posted reads 'Sampson' not Simpson

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Arthur Buckland m Elizabeth Simpson 1896 Jun Q Paddington 1a 65

1891 England Census
about Thomas William Simpson
Name: Thomas William Simpson
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Laura E
Gender: Male
Where born: Hammersmith

Civil parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Kensington
Sub-registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas William Simpson 23
Laura E Simpson 22

Name Estimated birth year Event Date Spouse Name Parish View Images
View Record
Thomas William Simpson abt 1868 4 Apr 1891 Laura Elizabeth Sealley All Saints, Notting Hill