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Looking for a marriage of Samuel Benjamin Moffatt to Elizabeth Lace. Or Elizabeth someone else if previously married. Not done Isle of Man before. Does it appear on Freebmd? Note that in 1861 the district is Anglesey.

1861 Isle of Man Census
about Elizabeth Moffatt
Name: Elizabeth Moffatt
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Andreas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil Parish or Township: Andreas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Registration district: Anglesey
Sub-registration district: Holyhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Moffatt 40
Samuel Lace Moffatt 12
Charles B Moffatt 11

1851 Isle of Man Census
about Elizabeth Moffatt
Name: Elizabeth Moffatt
[Elizabeth Law]
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Where born: Andreas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female

Civil Parish or Township: Andreas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Registration district: Isle of Man
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Law 74 (reads Lace)
Elizabeth Moffatt 30
Samuel Lau Moffatt 2 (reads Lace)
Chas Benj Moffatt 1

From IGI...

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

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SAMUEL BENJAMIN MOFFATT Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH LACE Family
Marriage: 13 FEB 1848 Braddan, Isle Of Man, England



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

EDIT...You cannot order certs for the Isle of Man from GRO...you may find this website helpful..

http://www.cyndislist.com/isleman.htm

Linda

Linda

Stupid me. Thanks for that.

Sometimes my brain is in another place.

Now need them on the 1841 census.

Remember their ages have been 'rounded' .. do not really think that there are 2 sets of twins...

1841 Isle of Man Census about Elizabeth Lace
Name: Elizabeth Lace
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil parish: Andreas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Street Address: Balla Coltier
Occupation: --

Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: Isle of Man
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Lace 60 .. Shoe m.
Ann Lace 60
James Lace 25 .. Shoe m.*?
Charles Lace 25 .. Shoe m.*?
Elizabeth Lace 20
Ann Lace 15
Daniel Lace 15

Information from 1851 Census


Ann Law 74 b.ca 1777, Michael, Isle of Man, Widow, Annuitant <<<<<<<< image says Lace
Elizabeth Moffatt 30 Married (no occupation shown)
Samuel Lau Moffatt 2 b.ca 1849, Douglas, Isle of Man, Grandson <<<<< image Lau = Lace
Chas Benj Moffatt 1 b.ca 1850, Andreas, Isle of Man, Grandson

Address:- On Crogane



I have sent in name changes for you :)))


Elizabeth is a sempstress and widow on the 1861 Census




sylvia

I can't find Samuel though!



sylvia

I'm not dismissing twins as later generations have them, but take the point.

Wonder if this is Samuel Benjamin?

1841 Isle of Man Census
about Sam Moffat
Name: Sam Moffat
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Gender: Male
Where born: Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil parish: Conchan
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Street Address: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: Isle of Man
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Lydia Brown 60
Eliz Brown 30
Sam Moffat 23 - Ind

Irish Immigrants: New York Port Arrival Records, 1846-1851
about Samuel B. Moffatt
Name: Moffatt, Samuel B.
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Embarkation: Liverpool
Ship: Ticonderoga
Occupation: clerk
Passengers: 371
Native Country: Ireland
Destination: USA
Arrival Date: 8 Apr 1850

oo'er


so he married her, then went to the USA??

In 1861, she describes herself as a widow .................. so did he die in the US, or was that a convenient description?





You could solve the twin "problem" by looking at the 1851 census .......... I'll have a look in a minute




sylvia

starting off with Charles in 1841

Name: Charles Lace
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil parish: Andreas
County/Island: Isle of Man

William Lace 60
Ann Lace 60
James Lace 25
Charles Lace 25
Elizabeth Lace 20
Ann Lace 15
Daniel Lace 15


Charles in 1851

Name: Charles Lace
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Where born: Andreas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male

Civil Parish or Township: Andreas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Ann Lace 73 Annuitant
Charles Lace 36 Shoe Maker
Elizabeth Lace 31 Annuitant Daughter
Ann Lace 29 Annuitant Daughter

Address:- Ballalhane


The same Charles in 1861??

Name: Charles Lace
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine
Gender: Male
Where born: Andreas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Charles Lace 46 Shoemaker and Farmer of 4 acres
Catherine Lace 26
Elizabeth Lace 1
Elizabeth Lace 40 Sister


There is something wrong here!!!



You (and I) found Elizabeth Lace as Moffatt on the 1851 living with mother Ann Lace


But here is another Ann Lace with children Charles, Elizabeth and Ann ...... and this Charles is a shoe maker just as Charles was on the 1841.

and then Charles Shoemaker is on the 1861 with his unmarried sister Elizabeth


Sooooo ............. was the 1841 census that Julie found the wrong one????

Are there two Lace families on the Isle of Man with mother's Ann??

If so ... what is the mis-transcripiton on the 1841??





sylvia

from the I G I

ELIZ. LACE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 MAR 1818 Andreas, Isle Of Man, England

4. ELIZ LACE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 JAN 1820 Andreas, Isle Of Man, England

5. ELIZ. LACE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 JAN 1821 Andreas, Isle Of Man, England

7. ELIZ. LACE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 18 AUG 1822 Andreas, Isle Of Man, England





and ALL 4 are submitted records!!



sylvia

??????????????????????????



from the I G I


SAML LACE MOFFATT Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 18 JUN 1848 Saint Mathews, Douglas, Isle Of Man, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JAMES BENJAMIN MOFFATT Family
Mother: ELIZTH LACE

-----------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

---------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C038041 1718 - 1849 0106718 Film 6909381 Film
C038041 1849 - 1883 0106186 Film NONE



and


CHARLES BENJAMIN MOFFATT Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 05 APR 1850 Andreas, Isle Of Man, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: SAML BENJ MOFFATT Family
Mother: ELIZTH LACE

----------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C035751 1666 - 1831 0106704 Film 6909370 Film
C035751 1832 - 1849 0106705 Film NONE
C035751 1849 - 1883 0106179 Film NONE



curioser and curioser



is it a mere mis-transcription????






sylvia

Sylvia, am baffled.

1851 is the problem. Ann Lace 73 or 74 appears with Elizabeth Lace 31 and Elizabeth Moffatt 30. I didn't note the addresses. Will go back and check.

Can't see that it is a transcription error.

There are two Ann Laces living in Andreas on the 1841

One is married to William, shoemaker

Street Address: Balla Coltier
Occupation: --

Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: Isle of Man
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Lace 60 .. Shoe m.
Ann Lace 60
James Lace 25 .. Shoe m.*?
Charles Lace 25 .. Shoe m.*?
Elizabeth Lace 20
Ann Lace 15
Daniel Lace 15


and one is married to John, a farmer:-

Name: Ann Lace
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Female
Where born: Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil parish: Andreas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: Isle of Man

John Lace 60 Farmer
Ann Lace 50
Mary Lace 20
John Lace 15
Sophia Lace 15
Daniel Lace 14 Grocer's Apprentice
William Lace 13
Humphrey Lace 12
Charles Lace 6
Catharine Bell 20
Robert Ball 5
Elizabeth Radcliffe 13

Address:- Balla Cubha (???sp)



Only the Ann and William have an Elizabeth living at home.




sylvia

Oh .... the last possible mis-transcription I referred to was on the I G I ....................


James Benjamin Moffett vs Samuel Benjamin Moffatt



sylvia

Sylvia, am baffled.

1851 is the problem. Ann Lace 73 or 74 appears with Elizabeth Lace 31 and Elizabeth Moffatt 30. I didn't note the addresses. Will go back and check.

Two possible fathers, Samuel Benjamin and James Benjamin. Could be a transcription error.

It might have helped if Samuel Benjamin had nor cleared off to America.

If indeed, it was him.

Many thanks so far.

Margaret

Sylvia, re the two Ann Laces in 1841, okay. One seems not to be mine. The one with an Elizabeth does seem to be mine. But it doesn't answer why there are two Ann Laces in 1851 - one with Elizabeth Lace 31, and one with Elizabeth Moffatt 30.

The one I am after is with Charles Benjamin Moffatt aged 1 in 1851. But I wonder who the other Ann and Elizabeth are? I could get mighty confused, if I am not already. Reach for the wine!

Incidentally, James and Charles Lace, both aged 25 in 1841 were christened on the same date, so might indeed have been twins. James is 36 in 1851, as is Charles.

I didn't twig your transcription error at first. Don't know who James Benjamin Moffatt is, suspect an error as you say.

Margaret

don't mean to make you more confused, but




don't forget that some families block christened their children!

............. so you can have several of different ages all being christened on the same day.


Sometimes that is because of cost, sometimes because they just weren't bothered about it until somebody reminded them, sometimes it was because there wasn't a vicar there all the time ............. and sometimes it was just to be plain awkward!



I did do a little follow up ....... and Elizabeth Lace also occurs on the 1861 Census with her brother


so there were TWO Ann Laces and TWO Elizabeths with similar birth dates



probably related!!




sylvia

Oh


Have you got a second glass of wine handy????




I did find a James B Moffatt born ca 1895 living in the Isle of Man with his wife Jane on, I think, the 1861 Census



....... but he was born in England and a retired military person of some sort.






sylvia

Phew, never mind the second glass of wine, onto the third!

Yes, two Ann Laces, yes two Elizabeth Laces. The others may be related but my Elizabeth is the one who marries a Moffatt, be it James Benjamin or Samuel Benjamin, and it seems to be Samuel Benjamin. I need the birth cert of child Charles Benjamin Moffatt 1850 to confirm. Drat. Doing this for a very remote relative (long story, abandoned by her father) and didn't want to spend money. Hey ho, has to be done.

I will just settle down a bit before ordering, and make sure that I am sure he is Charles Benjamin Moffatt that I want. Yes he is. 1871 in the County Lunatic Asylum, Wakefield, Yorkshire, not as an inmate but as the Baker.

Many thanks for your help. Will let you know if his father comes back as Johann Sebbastian Bach and his mother as Florence Nightingale or something equally bizarre.

Margaret

Can someone please advise how to order BMDs from the Isle of Man?

Many thanks.