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Trying to find a birth record for John Morton born 10-04-1910 so I can sent for cert. He married in 1941(on record Vol 2b, page 747-1) He was in the forces in the 1940's I do not know if before that. Please can anyone help

His birth should be on FreeBMD, have you checked there

Yes, I got a list of names, records office sent me what they thought was correct but no good, my problem is I could not find a date match and I have no idea of place although the family lived in Sussex UK and he was married in Sussex I cannot find a Sussex entry in the births.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

There were two John Mortons registered in 2nd quarter 1910, John in Morpeth and John George in Lanchester. Yours who married in 1941 didn't have a middle name.

Big question - how do you know his date of birth?

Any idea where he was born? Do you know a parent's name? If not, you pretty much have to get his marriage certificate to see what it says for father's name. That way you should be able to find him in the 1911 census, with a matching father.

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

There were more than a dozen John Mortons born in 1910, so without something to match, like father's name, chances would be bad. If he can be found in the 1911, that should give his mother's name as well, and of course the location.

perhaps he wasnt born in Sussex. The birth would have been registered and if his birthday is correct would have been reg in the June qtr.
The only John with no second christian name is this one.
Name: John Morton
Year of Registration: 1910
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Morpeth
County: Durham, Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 471
His family may have moved to Sussex OR maybe as he married in Sussex and it was War Time he may have been based there in the Forces.
You could use his fathers name as a check point if you order that cert

Couldn't find the Morpeth John that I and Shirley noted in the 1911, and here's why:

Deaths Sep 1910
Morton John 0 Morpeth 10b 236

I'm wondering whether his parents weren't married and he was registered under his mother's surname, and later adopted his father's/stepfather's surname. It's a common thing.

Birth date got from funeral directors as thats what they had written down so I assume they had confirmation of it at the death on 09-05-1970. His father was William Edward Morton and he had died by the time John was married on 31-10-1941 in Hove, that was got from the married cert. John has no middle name written on anything that I have seen.

Ah, unfortunately the birthdate you have is only as good as the memory of whoever provided it -- no confirmation is needed.

I find that family members often have the date right, but may be out a year or two. ;)

Did not know confirmation was not needed for a death.
On married cert it says he was aged 31 so there is room for the date to be out a bit, he was in the forces so he could have been born anywhere,I will have to get a lookup on the 1911 census for his father

This is the likeliest looking marriage:


Marriages Jun 1910
> Holdham Clara Islington 1b 506
Mickl_ewood Frank Brooks Islington 1b 506
> MORTON William Edward Islington 1b 506
PRATT Susannah Maude Islington 1b 506


(Frank and Susanah Maud Micklewood are together in the 1911 census.)

Which does leave the possibility that he was born before the marriage and registered in his mother's name -- or that he was born after the marriage, either on the date you have (for which we can't find a registration) or later.


Can't look his father up on the 1911 without knowing his age and location, really, but I'm poking around. Give it a go:

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

You can search without having to pay.

A possibility in 1911 -- although if these are the William & Clara who married in 1910, it must have been a second marriage for somebody.


MORTON WILLIAM 1878 33 Fulham London
MORTON CLARA 1878 33 Fulham London
MORTON ELLALINE 1902 9 Fulham London
MORTON IVY 1904 7 Fulham London
MORTON MABEL 1908 3 Fulham London
MORTON WILLIAM 1909 2 Fulham London
MORTON JOHN 1910 1 Fulham London


Aha, it could well have been a second marriage for Clara:

Marriages Sep 1901
? BROWN Clara Edmonton 3a 635
FREE William Henry Edmonton 3a 635
? Holdham William John Edmonton 3a 635
Patmore Ellen Edmonton 3a 635

I don't see any birth of a Clara Holdham to fit the Clara in 1911, and there is no Clara + William Holdham couple in 1911. There is an Ellen + William Free couple in Edmonton.


I'm gonna go holler for Viv with her 1911 subscription to check the details on that one, e.g. how long the couple was married.


The William in 1911 was born c1878. He may have been born elsewhere, because there isn't a good match in births.


This is an interesting possibility though:

Births Jun 1848
HOLDHAM William John Edmonton 3 155
Deaths Jun 1907
Holdham William John 57 Kingston 2a 236

John had about 5 sisters, so I was told

My you can holler loud Janey!
Lucky I had my hearing aid turned down or I would have gone deaf.

MORTON, William Head Married M 33 1878 House Painter Dublin Ireeland VIEW
MORTON, Clara Wife Married
13 years F 33 1878 London VIEW
MORTON, Ellaline Daughter F 9 1902 School Fulham Lon VIEW
MORTON, Ivy Daughter F 7 1904 School Fulham Lon VIEW
MORTON, Mabel Daughter F 3 1908 Fulham Lon VIEW
MORTON, William Son M 2 1909 Ramsgate VIEW
MORTON, John Son M 1 1910 Ramsgate

Got to do something else for a while ,back in a bit.

Well, the 5 sisters would go well with that 1911 John - he had Evaline (likely what "Ellaline" is), Ivy and Mabel by then. ;)

There are no Morton-Holdham births 1911 onward (i.e. what we would expect to see from the 1910 marriage). Of course, Morton-Brown births are a dime a dozen.

This birth - unfortunately just before mother's surnames were recorded in the index - could be another daughter:

Births Jun 1911
Morton Iris W M Fulham 1a 286

(There's also an Amy the previous quarter, but she would have been in the census.)

Viv must be feeding the livestock. We'll see what she can tell us when she gets my message.

There you are!

Well there's some fibbing there I think - married 13 years my foot.

I'd had my eye on this guy in 1901:


Name: William Morton
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Kilburn, Dublin, Ireland

Civil parish: Fulham

Edwin Fox 64
Ann Fox 63
Caroline Fox 35
Elizabeth Fox 26
Alice Fox 21
William Morton 23

Occupation: House Painter - and *single*.


1891

Name: William R Morton
-- that "R" looks just like the "E" on brother Edward's name
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Fulham

John Morton 37 - Stone Carver Mason, born Ireland
Sarah Morton 36 - born Horwich, Lancashire
Lizzie Morton 15 - all kids born Ireland
William R Morton 13
Georgina Morton 10
Annie Morton 8
Edward Morton 6
Lydia Morton 4
Sarah Morton 2


Of course we have no idea whether these are our Mortons, so I don't want to get *too* carried away!


But what the heck, why not a good wild theory?

Births Mar 1853
NOONAN Sarah Jane Bolton 8c 210

Horwich is in Bolton reg dist.


http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/search_igi.asp

William Morton
Birth: 29 OCT 1876 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Father: John Morton
Mother: Sarah Morton Noonan
Batch No.: C009461


1865 - 1885, Dublin, Ireland, British Isles
Father: John Morton, Mother: Sarah

1. Anne Morton
Birth: 09 JAN 1873 North, Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
2. Elizabeth Morton
Birth: 08 MAR 1875 North City, , Dublin, Ireland
3. William Morton
Birth: 29 OCT 1876 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
4. Georgina Jane Morton
Birth: 23 APR 1880 Foster Avenue, , Dublin, Ireland
5. Isabella Morton
Birth: 14 AUG 1878 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland


-- the first one is odd one out, not an extracted record, mother's surname not shown. For all the others, surname is Noonan, which is why I went looking for the Sarah Noonan birth.

And duh! John's birthplace in the 1911 was Ramsgate (in Thanet reg dist). So here he's been all along:

Births Mar 1910
MORTON John Thanet 2a 1028

IF that's our boy!


I think this might confirm the father's name, though:

Births Mar 1909
MORTON William Edward Thanet 2a 1043

Ivy W M Morton married in 1931 in Hendon. Since she was born in 1911, I'll consider this not info about a living person.

Name: Ivy W M Morton
Spouse: James W Johnson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1931
Registration district: Hendon
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 987


The father's name on that marriage certificate would be useful info.

The marriages of other children in that 1911 household would be more useful likely, but identifying their births (to try to get middle names -- and to confirm surnames, since we don't know whose kids they were) is problematic.

I have read and re-read but no where do I see Johns father Williams occupation from the 1941 marriage cert,am I missing something?

The 5 sisters could just be 5 children
William Edward Morton on Johns marriage cert says deceased & profession House Decorator.
John was wounded out of the forces, do they keep records anywhere for wounded in action?

Well there we are -- house decorator, house painter -- moved up slightly in the occupational field in the interim.

Georgey, are you catching it?

We do seem to have identified your John and his family! After rather a bit of effort.

Knock twice if you're following. It would be rather nice to know that you've noticed everything I in particular have found you. If you check the time stamps on the posts, you'll see how much time did go into it. The better part of two hours' free labour, basically, from me alone.

You do know that the words "thank you" have not passed your keyboard yet?

We do get engrossed in our searches, but to reply to help with just another question isn't quite the way.